As a cloudy day trip from München with a Bayern ticket. Took the bus to the Forsthaus Valepp, walked up to the Traunitzalm. From there the steep trail up to the ridge and then left to the summit of the Austrian Schinder (3h). With no views at all and light rain didn't hike up the German Schinder but went straight down the klettersteig, which was fun with the long scree slope down after it to the bus stop (1,5h). Saw nobody the whole hike.