Great article. I also agree that it reflects my view towards scrambling-type terrrain. Here in the east, I do not get much chance for Class 4 terrain, but I enjoy it very much when the opportunity arises, even if it is only on a small mountain. I still remember very fondly a route a friend and I did in Acadia N.P. last fall in which the terrain became harder than my friend and I expected, but we were able to problem-solve and climb a significant bit of class 4 terrein. It was an exhilarating challenge, and I felt a great sense of fulfillment upon reaching the top, where an easy hiking trail was available for the descent. I will also always remember scrambling up a knife-edged ridge to the summit of Mount Alyeska, Alaska. Minute for minute, the most enjoyable scramble I have ever done!
Thanks a bunch! Well it occurs to me that Alyeska gave you a great gift: minute by minute you wondered what would come next, and the excitement to be in an exposed place with just enough safety to keep you going up. With your two sentences about it I'm already living vicariously! :D
I am very interested in the history of mountaineering and have read a good number of books over the years particularly on the "Golden Age" of climbing in the Canadian Rockies. I am encouraged to hear this discussion on SP with all of the hype lately on grades and sport climbing. It is truly refreshing to see the recognition for those who have opened the doors to us in the mountains. They truly were "mountain men" and I have a great deal to learn from them. Thank you for your brilliant article.
´Thainks for thinking out loud. You cover quite a few of my emmotions when on such routes. One thing that never ceases to impress is that these IIIers which we now consider easy althugh dangerous were often first climbed by people who were really pushing the limits of those days..amazing people!
Cheers
I am lucky, as I've had an old teacher almost from the beginning, who have tought me the principles of relaying on myself on the route. I love principles: "Use belaying, but don't rely on it" and "The leader must not fall". Of course, it is all about mountaineering, not sport climbing :)
A compelling article! It shed a diffrent light on how I manage with 4th class terrain and the insights of others and their contributions rounded things out a bit. Nice article!!
Wow! That is the most insightful article I've read in a long time and definitely made sense. As a rock climber I recently did a traverse of Mt. Colin in Jasper, (III 5.7), the 5.7 pitch was the easiest part, its the knife edge ridges that take a long time to get used to!
Just returning to mountaineering after a long time away, I'm anxious to regain the scrambling skills I learned climbing class 3 as a kid, and would like to progress to class 4. Striking the right balance between adventure and safety, and gaining the expertise to shift that balance, are important parts of our pursuit.
You nailed this right on. I feel like this explains my inner feeling of climbing. There is something higher to climbing that you elude to here. Honestly I don't think it really has anything to do with climbing at all actually... Maybe your article doesn't even directly take a stab at it. When you climb I think the uncertainty is the excitement. I think a good point here is we have an urge to play the higher role. We like when we take our lives into our own hands. If I die on this rock its because I chose to climb this rock. If I live on this climb its because I possessed the needed skill to accomplish the climb. Doesn't matter how many anchors could have failed. Doesn't matter how many times you back clipped / Z-Clipped / Cross Clipped / Side Clipped / Used the side of the quick draw with the rubber piece in it in the bolt instead of the other way around (or vice versa if you are in that camp...) Doesn't matter how little you knew about Cam Placements. Doesn't matter about you should have used the next size nut instead of the one you chose. The fact is that you conquered that climb. It is neat to climb with beginners (people we are slightly less experienced than yourself... i.e. I can climb 5.9 and someone else has a hard time with 5.5...) because it gives us a keen retrospect into where we started. I always want to be a beginner at heart because that is where we learn the most about ourselves in those trying situations. I think everyone has had those moments where we honestly thought that was it, only to look back on it after your skill increases and think about how far you were from what you were thinking. Great article. I couldn't agree with you more. Thanks!
Thanks for your detailed comments! There is an element of magic to the whole activity, that's what we bring to it. Beginners are people starting on a magical journey. Will they come as far as we did? I love when someone new at the end of a day is full of tiredness and pride in accomplishment, and they suddenly "get" what they've been missing by not doing this every weekend! Definitely, beginners are a gift to old-timers because they reflect and renew that sense of wonder. God love'em! :).
I think you are right, it is that you have your life in your hands that really makes the experience great. That's what adds a mystical dimension. It's "the thrill of the lead," and once you know it, you have to walk that path.
It is cool to view such informative article post where i come to get more new knowledge of comments..
Good Effort
Recovery software
Technical Support Head
www.datarecoverysoftware.com
and thanks for the enjoyable movie! Moving over rock with the fluidity of water – this is the style I imagine the pioneering climbers used during the golden age of mountaineering in the Alps. For me, I think it was the West Ridge of Stuart that provided the wakeup call on how 4th class rock is supposed to be handled; we free and simul-climbed as much of these sections as possible and we still managed to top out just before sunset, largely because what happened when pitching out the last few hundred feet. The lost time meant we didn’t make it back to camp at Ingalls Lake; instead, we dove down Ulrich's in the dark, battled through a slide alder bushwhack from hell and finally crash-bivied in our backpacks near Ingalls Creek. Our experience would make some educational reading, but this article captures the essence of how to climb certain terrain with speed and safety as well as anyone ever could!
weeds19 - Jun 5, 2007 9:13 am - Voted 10/10
Superb ArticleWell written and thoughtful! It touches on that delicate balance between speed, safety, and elegance.
climber46 - Jun 5, 2007 11:42 am - Voted 10/10
Well-spokenGreat article. I also agree that it reflects my view towards scrambling-type terrrain. Here in the east, I do not get much chance for Class 4 terrain, but I enjoy it very much when the opportunity arises, even if it is only on a small mountain. I still remember very fondly a route a friend and I did in Acadia N.P. last fall in which the terrain became harder than my friend and I expected, but we were able to problem-solve and climb a significant bit of class 4 terrein. It was an exhilarating challenge, and I felt a great sense of fulfillment upon reaching the top, where an easy hiking trail was available for the descent. I will also always remember scrambling up a knife-edged ridge to the summit of Mount Alyeska, Alaska. Minute for minute, the most enjoyable scramble I have ever done!
mvs - Jun 8, 2007 3:58 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Well-spokenThanks a bunch! Well it occurs to me that Alyeska gave you a great gift: minute by minute you wondered what would come next, and the excitement to be in an exposed place with just enough safety to keep you going up. With your two sentences about it I'm already living vicariously! :D
Jay Ewing - Jun 6, 2007 1:14 pm - Hasn't voted
Thank youI am very interested in the history of mountaineering and have read a good number of books over the years particularly on the "Golden Age" of climbing in the Canadian Rockies. I am encouraged to hear this discussion on SP with all of the hype lately on grades and sport climbing. It is truly refreshing to see the recognition for those who have opened the doors to us in the mountains. They truly were "mountain men" and I have a great deal to learn from them. Thank you for your brilliant article.
mvs - Jun 8, 2007 3:40 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Thank youThanks Jay! The previous generations applied significant intelligence and experience to their journeys, it is great to learn about them.
cp0915 - Jun 7, 2007 3:26 pm - Voted 10/10
Great articleVery thought provoking, and well-written. Thanks for taking me on that journey.
Charles - Jun 8, 2007 7:23 am - Voted 10/10
Interesting´Thainks for thinking out loud. You cover quite a few of my emmotions when on such routes. One thing that never ceases to impress is that these IIIers which we now consider easy althugh dangerous were often first climbed by people who were really pushing the limits of those days..amazing people!
Cheers
Charles
mvs - Jun 13, 2007 1:09 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: InterestingThanks Charles! I know, in like...smooth-soled shoes and a static rope around their chest (shiver).
arturf - Jun 9, 2007 7:48 am - Voted 10/10
Great!I am lucky, as I've had an old teacher almost from the beginning, who have tought me the principles of relaying on myself on the route. I love principles: "Use belaying, but don't rely on it" and "The leader must not fall". Of course, it is all about mountaineering, not sport climbing :)
Dave Daly - Jul 12, 2007 7:11 pm - Voted 10/10
4th Class.....Always An Eye Opener!A compelling article! It shed a diffrent light on how I manage with 4th class terrain and the insights of others and their contributions rounded things out a bit. Nice article!!
caputaka - Sep 28, 2007 10:39 pm - Hasn't voted
Awesome!Wow! That is the most insightful article I've read in a long time and definitely made sense. As a rock climber I recently did a traverse of Mt. Colin in Jasper, (III 5.7), the 5.7 pitch was the easiest part, its the knife edge ridges that take a long time to get used to!
mvs - Sep 29, 2007 2:28 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Awesome!Thanks, I'm glad you liked it! Sounds like a beautiful climb too.
Element - Nov 9, 2007 2:26 pm - Voted 10/10
My thoughts exactly!It was like you were reading my mind. Good job!
mvs - Jan 7, 2008 5:15 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: My thoughts exactly!Great minds think alike...thanks Element!
highlandvillager - Jan 6, 2008 2:24 pm - Voted 9/10
Great Article!Just returning to mountaineering after a long time away, I'm anxious to regain the scrambling skills I learned climbing class 3 as a kid, and would like to progress to class 4. Striking the right balance between adventure and safety, and gaining the expertise to shift that balance, are important parts of our pursuit.
mvs - Jan 7, 2008 5:17 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Great Article!Enjoy the journey Highlandvillager! It'll be even more fun the second time...
baloodh2000 - Apr 30, 2008 1:30 am - Voted 10/10
Perfectly WrittenYou nailed this right on. I feel like this explains my inner feeling of climbing. There is something higher to climbing that you elude to here. Honestly I don't think it really has anything to do with climbing at all actually... Maybe your article doesn't even directly take a stab at it. When you climb I think the uncertainty is the excitement. I think a good point here is we have an urge to play the higher role. We like when we take our lives into our own hands. If I die on this rock its because I chose to climb this rock. If I live on this climb its because I possessed the needed skill to accomplish the climb. Doesn't matter how many anchors could have failed. Doesn't matter how many times you back clipped / Z-Clipped / Cross Clipped / Side Clipped / Used the side of the quick draw with the rubber piece in it in the bolt instead of the other way around (or vice versa if you are in that camp...) Doesn't matter how little you knew about Cam Placements. Doesn't matter about you should have used the next size nut instead of the one you chose. The fact is that you conquered that climb. It is neat to climb with beginners (people we are slightly less experienced than yourself... i.e. I can climb 5.9 and someone else has a hard time with 5.5...) because it gives us a keen retrospect into where we started. I always want to be a beginner at heart because that is where we learn the most about ourselves in those trying situations. I think everyone has had those moments where we honestly thought that was it, only to look back on it after your skill increases and think about how far you were from what you were thinking. Great article. I couldn't agree with you more. Thanks!
mvs - Apr 30, 2008 5:20 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Perfectly WrittenThanks for your detailed comments! There is an element of magic to the whole activity, that's what we bring to it. Beginners are people starting on a magical journey. Will they come as far as we did? I love when someone new at the end of a day is full of tiredness and pride in accomplishment, and they suddenly "get" what they've been missing by not doing this every weekend! Definitely, beginners are a gift to old-timers because they reflect and renew that sense of wonder. God love'em! :).
I think you are right, it is that you have your life in your hands that really makes the experience great. That's what adds a mystical dimension. It's "the thrill of the lead," and once you know it, you have to walk that path.
Thanks again, happy climbing!
recoverysoftware - Apr 16, 2010 7:15 am - Hasn't voted
Fabulous stuffIt is cool to view such informative article post where i come to get more new knowledge of comments..
Good Effort
Recovery software
Technical Support Head
www.datarecoverysoftware.com
alpinpete - Dec 17, 2010 3:03 pm - Hasn't voted
Well written...and thanks for the enjoyable movie! Moving over rock with the fluidity of water – this is the style I imagine the pioneering climbers used during the golden age of mountaineering in the Alps. For me, I think it was the West Ridge of Stuart that provided the wakeup call on how 4th class rock is supposed to be handled; we free and simul-climbed as much of these sections as possible and we still managed to top out just before sunset, largely because what happened when pitching out the last few hundred feet. The lost time meant we didn’t make it back to camp at Ingalls Lake; instead, we dove down Ulrich's in the dark, battled through a slide alder bushwhack from hell and finally crash-bivied in our backpacks near Ingalls Creek. Our experience would make some educational reading, but this article captures the essence of how to climb certain terrain with speed and safety as well as anyone ever could!