Well, this trip report has generated more comments than you probably care to read Noah, but after scanning through ALL of them, I've got to add my own: Don't be too hard on yourself. I have yet to meet any mountain climbers that don't have some early climbing epic tale when they got way in over their heads and should have died. I know I have mine. It's funny how those kind of epics don't continue in climbing careers, even though the great experiences and summits just keep rolling in.
Great Report. I sure have learned some things from the report and the responses. I sometimes wonder how close all of us come to peril at any moment while climbing. I'm sure it's alot closer than most people think. Glad you made it!
Thanks for sharing this story with us. I give you credit for sharing your tale, as OBVIOUSLY you knew it would get some comments.
You are only at the beginning of a long (hopefully) life enjoying the mountains. As you progress, you will look back at your teenage ideals and knowledge, and see what those on this forum are trying to convey to you guys. We were all there guys! We all had or still have the big dreams. These ideals on who we need to be can put ourselves into dicey situations, in over our heads. All I want to say as far as my 0.02$ goes- Slow your roll guys. Set and complete some short term goals that are achievable like climbing local mountains within your abilities. Become competent with all kinds of pro in safe settings. Do some multi-pitch climbing. Seek advice and talk to climbers that have been doing it for twice your age and learn from them.
I see myself in some ways when I read your guys story, so please take my advise and everyone elses for what its worth-people trying to give constructive criticism and dont want to hear about someone else dying.
Bringing that beacon was a great idea! Yeah, you'll get lots of criticism but we all make mistakes. Better decisions usually come with experience. Just wear some more suitable clothing and bring ice axe and crampons next time. Sliding down hard snow is VERY dangerous btw (even with ice axe). Best of luck with your future endeavors. Just take it slow! Running before walking is usually a bad idea.
There are an abundance of resources to track weather in the mountains now days. Sorry but there is no excuse for knowingly beginning to climb some of Colorado's most dangerous peaks in rain. While the day was supposed to be a good weather day the route was going to be rotten and soggy from the rain that you guys began climbing in. You should have called it off right there. Don't knowingly climb tough peaks in the rain. Seriously.
You guys didn't have the gear to survive a night on the mountain? That decision forced both of you to glissade the bell cord couliour without an ice axe. Do one or the other. Bring enough gear to survive a night on the mountain or bring an ice axe. You guys made a multitude of bad decisions, not just a couple. While you guys may disagree that you lacked skill, knowledge, and experience it clearly shows that you did. Don't downplay it. You have to be prepared to spend a night on the mountain. No questions asked. You don't have to burden yourself with an extra 20 pounds of gear but seriously bring enough to survive a night in the mountains so that you aren't forced to go on a suicide mission. Glissading the bell cord coulouir with hiking poles is just plain dumb.
First off, I have admitted already that starting the traverse given the weather was a bad idea, but I still hold that the climb of South Maroon was safe and not bad from the rain, even with the overnight weather. I know other climbers, experienced ones, who also climbed the same day on Pyramid and other close peaks even though it rained overnight. While it IS a sign that there is moisture, it ISN'T a sign that we shouldn't have started the climb. Even the weather forecast agreed. There was forecast rain early early in the morning, clearing up by 3ish (which it did) and then starting in the afternoon - that was the forecast. Had the weather not cleared up after the overnight rain, that's a different story, but it did, just like the forecast said. I stuck to the forecast and figured that we had until around noon to safely climb. The weather moved in a few hours earlier than that, and thus, I agree that the traverse was a bad idea, and I've admitted to that already.
Second, where in that report did it say we didn't have the gear to stay out for the night? Stop making assumptions. I was completely ready to stay out and would have done so safely had SAR not reached me that evening, and I'm fairly certain Noah did too. I've already admitted that the attempt down the bell cord was dumb and it would have been smarter to reclimb South Maroon. I have admitted that it was a mistake to attempt anything on the bell cord. That was a lack of judgment in hopes of getting down. Why are people bashing me for mistakes I've already admitted to completely in the comments on page 2?
"Bring enough gear to survive a night on the mountain or bring an ice axe." - That doesn't make sense...
I'll try to refrain from anything that can be considered bashing. You'll look back on this report years from now and hopefully see a different, much more experienced climber in yourself. I think you'll be happy you wrote it despite all the comments you're getting now.
Experience is apparently what you lack. It can only be gained with time and more trips. You'll think you have some now, and you may have a little, but time will give you a different perspective. Having a more experienced leader would help you learn new things, even just how to mentally deal with different situations. The change in weather, traverse or not, made you force a decision that in reality didn't have to be forced. If you had the gear you said you did, you should have been able to sit out a storm on the saddle or even sit out a cold and uncomfortable but survivable night up high. Getting into a "I have to do something or we'll die" mindset was probably the worst thing. Glad you're okay.
Rarely will more gear save you unless you're grossly negligent in what you're carrying. Making the smartest decisions and not making ANY big mistakes will keep you alive.
Thank God that you and Kevin made it out alive. This is a sobering and valuable trip report. Thanks for having the courage to post it. Consider attaching it to the South to North Traverse route page also.
Q: "Second, where in that report did it say we didn't have the gear to stay out for the night?"
A: Right here:
"We knew we needed to do something, as sitting was not an option...I was getting to the point of hypothermia with no feeling in my hands or feet. We knew we had to move to not freeze to death."
and here:
"I was starting to get dangerously cold and I knew if no rescue came in the next 2 hours I would have to find a diffcult line up all these wet cliffs back over the summit of Maroon Peak and back the route we came from in order to not die from hypothermia... No rescue came in the next couple of hours so once again I thought would I rather die by hypo. or die actually trying to get out."
Do you bring extra wool socks and extra gloves on your day hikes? My feet and hands were wet and soaked. As you "hopefully" know. That starts the hypothermia. No amount of clothing could of kept me warm when part of your body is already wet and cold. As I had many layers on and my face covered. Your assuming things. Please just stop commenting. I would appreciate it. This is done and over with. If anything learn from it so these mistakes won't happen to you or others.
darinchadwick - Aug 12, 2009 3:48 am - Voted 10/10
Easy now!!Well, this trip report has generated more comments than you probably care to read Noah, but after scanning through ALL of them, I've got to add my own: Don't be too hard on yourself. I have yet to meet any mountain climbers that don't have some early climbing epic tale when they got way in over their heads and should have died. I know I have mine. It's funny how those kind of epics don't continue in climbing careers, even though the great experiences and summits just keep rolling in.
rasgoat - Aug 12, 2009 11:43 am - Voted 10/10
Re: Easy now!!Great Report. I sure have learned some things from the report and the responses. I sometimes wonder how close all of us come to peril at any moment while climbing. I'm sure it's alot closer than most people think. Glad you made it!
noahs213 - Oct 27, 2010 11:56 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Easy now!!http://www.summitpost.org/view_object.php?object_id=674905&confirm_post=12
noahs213 - Oct 28, 2010 12:00 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Easy now!!http://www.summitpost.org/view_object.php?object_id=674905&confirm_post=12
Blair - Aug 12, 2009 12:42 pm - Hasn't voted
Good TR...Thanks for sharing this story with us. I give you credit for sharing your tale, as OBVIOUSLY you knew it would get some comments.
You are only at the beginning of a long (hopefully) life enjoying the mountains. As you progress, you will look back at your teenage ideals and knowledge, and see what those on this forum are trying to convey to you guys. We were all there guys! We all had or still have the big dreams. These ideals on who we need to be can put ourselves into dicey situations, in over our heads. All I want to say as far as my 0.02$ goes- Slow your roll guys. Set and complete some short term goals that are achievable like climbing local mountains within your abilities. Become competent with all kinds of pro in safe settings. Do some multi-pitch climbing. Seek advice and talk to climbers that have been doing it for twice your age and learn from them.
I see myself in some ways when I read your guys story, so please take my advise and everyone elses for what its worth-people trying to give constructive criticism and dont want to hear about someone else dying.
Carry on safely guys!
noahs213 - Oct 27, 2010 11:59 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Good TR...http://www.summitpost.org/view_object.php?object_id=674905&confirm_post=12
Luciano136 - Aug 12, 2009 6:28 pm - Voted 10/10
Glad to hear you made it!Bringing that beacon was a great idea! Yeah, you'll get lots of criticism but we all make mistakes. Better decisions usually come with experience. Just wear some more suitable clothing and bring ice axe and crampons next time. Sliding down hard snow is VERY dangerous btw (even with ice axe). Best of luck with your future endeavors. Just take it slow! Running before walking is usually a bad idea.
noahs213 - Oct 27, 2010 11:59 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Glad to hear you made it!http://www.summitpost.org/view_object.php?object_id=674905&confirm_post=12
strat1080 - Aug 13, 2009 4:33 pm - Hasn't voted
Questionable DecisionThere are an abundance of resources to track weather in the mountains now days. Sorry but there is no excuse for knowingly beginning to climb some of Colorado's most dangerous peaks in rain. While the day was supposed to be a good weather day the route was going to be rotten and soggy from the rain that you guys began climbing in. You should have called it off right there. Don't knowingly climb tough peaks in the rain. Seriously.
You guys didn't have the gear to survive a night on the mountain? That decision forced both of you to glissade the bell cord couliour without an ice axe. Do one or the other. Bring enough gear to survive a night on the mountain or bring an ice axe. You guys made a multitude of bad decisions, not just a couple. While you guys may disagree that you lacked skill, knowledge, and experience it clearly shows that you did. Don't downplay it. You have to be prepared to spend a night on the mountain. No questions asked. You don't have to burden yourself with an extra 20 pounds of gear but seriously bring enough to survive a night in the mountains so that you aren't forced to go on a suicide mission. Glissading the bell cord coulouir with hiking poles is just plain dumb.
Kevin8020 - Aug 13, 2009 5:04 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Questionable DecisionOk, hold on there!
First off, I have admitted already that starting the traverse given the weather was a bad idea, but I still hold that the climb of South Maroon was safe and not bad from the rain, even with the overnight weather. I know other climbers, experienced ones, who also climbed the same day on Pyramid and other close peaks even though it rained overnight. While it IS a sign that there is moisture, it ISN'T a sign that we shouldn't have started the climb. Even the weather forecast agreed. There was forecast rain early early in the morning, clearing up by 3ish (which it did) and then starting in the afternoon - that was the forecast. Had the weather not cleared up after the overnight rain, that's a different story, but it did, just like the forecast said. I stuck to the forecast and figured that we had until around noon to safely climb. The weather moved in a few hours earlier than that, and thus, I agree that the traverse was a bad idea, and I've admitted to that already.
Second, where in that report did it say we didn't have the gear to stay out for the night? Stop making assumptions. I was completely ready to stay out and would have done so safely had SAR not reached me that evening, and I'm fairly certain Noah did too. I've already admitted that the attempt down the bell cord was dumb and it would have been smarter to reclimb South Maroon. I have admitted that it was a mistake to attempt anything on the bell cord. That was a lack of judgment in hopes of getting down. Why are people bashing me for mistakes I've already admitted to completely in the comments on page 2?
"Bring enough gear to survive a night on the mountain or bring an ice axe." - That doesn't make sense...
noahs213 - Oct 27, 2010 11:57 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Questionable Decisionhttp://www.summitpost.org/view_object.php?object_id=674905&confirm_post=12
Pivvay - Aug 13, 2009 7:09 pm - Hasn't voted
DecisionsI'll try to refrain from anything that can be considered bashing. You'll look back on this report years from now and hopefully see a different, much more experienced climber in yourself. I think you'll be happy you wrote it despite all the comments you're getting now.
Experience is apparently what you lack. It can only be gained with time and more trips. You'll think you have some now, and you may have a little, but time will give you a different perspective. Having a more experienced leader would help you learn new things, even just how to mentally deal with different situations. The change in weather, traverse or not, made you force a decision that in reality didn't have to be forced. If you had the gear you said you did, you should have been able to sit out a storm on the saddle or even sit out a cold and uncomfortable but survivable night up high. Getting into a "I have to do something or we'll die" mindset was probably the worst thing. Glad you're okay.
Rarely will more gear save you unless you're grossly negligent in what you're carrying. Making the smartest decisions and not making ANY big mistakes will keep you alive.
Kevin8020 - Aug 13, 2009 7:37 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: DecisionsLooking back on things now, I see what you mean here and do agree. Thanks :)
noahs213 - Oct 27, 2010 11:57 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Decisionshttp://www.summitpost.org/view_object.php?object_id=674905&confirm_post=12
Larry V - Aug 15, 2009 11:08 pm - Voted 10/10
ValuableThank God that you and Kevin made it out alive. This is a sobering and valuable trip report. Thanks for having the courage to post it. Consider attaching it to the South to North Traverse route page also.
noahs213 - Aug 16, 2009 12:11 am - Hasn't voted
Re: ValuableI just did attach it. And I appreciate the encouragement Larry V.
noahs213 - Oct 27, 2010 11:58 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Valuablehttp://www.summitpost.org/view_object.php?object_id=674905&confirm_post=12
KevinCraig - Aug 16, 2009 2:06 pm - Hasn't voted
Q&AQ: "Second, where in that report did it say we didn't have the gear to stay out for the night?"
A: Right here:
"We knew we needed to do something, as sitting was not an option...I was getting to the point of hypothermia with no feeling in my hands or feet. We knew we had to move to not freeze to death."
and here:
"I was starting to get dangerously cold and I knew if no rescue came in the next 2 hours I would have to find a diffcult line up all these wet cliffs back over the summit of Maroon Peak and back the route we came from in order to not die from hypothermia... No rescue came in the next couple of hours so once again I thought would I rather die by hypo. or die actually trying to get out."
Kevin8020 - Aug 16, 2009 2:16 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Q&AOk, thanks... difference in Noah's report from mine that I didn't see... that kind of scares me too actually...
noahs213 - Aug 16, 2009 6:34 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Q&AKevin,
Do you bring extra wool socks and extra gloves on your day hikes? My feet and hands were wet and soaked. As you "hopefully" know. That starts the hypothermia. No amount of clothing could of kept me warm when part of your body is already wet and cold. As I had many layers on and my face covered. Your assuming things. Please just stop commenting. I would appreciate it. This is done and over with. If anything learn from it so these mistakes won't happen to you or others.