Will be trying to do Hollental route. If it is too hard, we'll do Jubileumsgrat.

That's the plan and also pretty much all the info I have right now, except ofcourse what I've read here. Anyone with more info you'd be doing me a favour by posting a reply.

Also, I'm looking for information about the German trains. I'd like to take a train from Aachen on wednsday the 11th in the evening and return by train from Garmisch on the 15th in the afternoon. I found everything I need except for prices. It would be very nice to do it by train, as I wouldn't be too tired when I get there. But if it's too expensive, I'll take the car. In Belgium you can probably do one side of Belgium to the other for about € 5. Is there something similar in Germany?

In reply to a PM, some extra info:

I Have in fact checked bahn.de, but I came to the conclusion that it's impossible that I'll have to pay € +500 per person for a return trip. I'm hoping somebody will be able to point me in the direction of some way of making this cheaper. Otherwise, I'll take the car for € 70 for two persons.

I know the bridges will be gone. Don't really know what kind of an impact this will have. We have enough time and will be equiped to camp out. If it takes us three days, that's not a problem.

Avalanches might be a problem, but we'll check the status of those before we leave. If it's too dangerous, we'll postpone the trip. I'm just hoping it won't be too technical.

Hoi Wouter,

Half april.

Gr, Peter

WouterB wrote:Will be trying to do Hollental route. If it is too hard, we'll do Jubileumsgrat.

That's the plan and also pretty much all the info I have right now, except ofcourse what I've read here. Anyone with more info you'd be doing me a favour by posting a reply.

Also, I'm looking for information about the German trains. I'd like to take a train from Aachen on wednsday the 11th in the evening and return by train from Garmisch on the 15th in the afternoon. I found everything I need except for prices. It would be very nice to do it by train, as I wouldn't be too tired when I get there. But if it's too expensive, I'll take the car. In Belgium you can probably do one side of Belgium to the other for about € 5. Is there something similar in Germany?

Hoellental route in winter most times is, simply put, a no-no. Avalanches, no path at the river side but only on the steep avalanche prone upper slopes above, cables buried under snow etc.

Not really a good choice compared to the Jubilaeums Ridge. But even the latter requires knowledge and stamina in winter. There is no easy emergency exit on the ridge. Besides this, the current avalanche situation in the norther and specificly the Bavarian alps is super dangerous. I do not really expect the ridge is ok in 2 weeks...

As for trains: Aachen - Garmisch and back is list priced at 262 Euro.
500 Euro is just for single luxus cabinet

Best Regards, Peter

PS: never did the ridge in winter, just 2 times in summer (one time in a push together with Hoellental). Have been a volunteer mountain rescue guy near that area once...

P. Vis wrote:Hoi Wouter,

Half april.

Gr, Peter

Dat wordt naar alle waarschijnlijkheid poging twee
Maar kan het niet laten om nu al eens te proberen.

If the weather doesn't get any better, we might postpone it too... .

I think we'll be going whatever the weather might be like and just evaluate things when we get there. If it's too bad, we'll just hike around and try to do some other, smaller peaks. Would the Alpspitze be a good back-up plan? I've seen some videos of people climbing it two months ago. Didn't seem too hard/steep/snowy.

WouterB wrote:I think we'll be going whatever the weather might be like and just evaluate things when we get there. If it's too bad, we'll just hike around and try to do some other, smaller peaks. Would the Alpspitze be a good back-up plan? I've seen some videos of people climbing it two months ago. Didn't seem too hard/steep/snowy.

Fun would be to climb the Alpspitze Via Ferrata (the North Ridge). You'd want crampons, ice ax, maybe a rope. It can be steep. But it's no harder than the terrain found on the Jubilaeumsgrat. The east ridge is an easier way down (nice way up too, esp. with skis).

Of course you need secure avalanche conditions. But it's less commitment than the full Jubilaeumsgrat so if your weather window is short it would be fun.

Mmh, might go Alpspitze nordwand then. I would love to do it on ski's, but my friend doens't know how to use those . If all goes well, we can still do Jubileumsgrat .

WouterB wrote:Mmh, might go Alpspitze nordwand then. I would love to do it on ski's, but my friend doens't know how to use those . If all goes well, we can still do Jubileumsgrat .

Now, where did you actually go? What was it like?
I'm curious 'cause I know both - I did Jubi-Grat in February 1981 starting from Kreuzeck hut.

The very unfriendly German people of the Garmisch skilifts didn't allow us to go up. They didn't even allow us to walk up. So we drove 1km, parked the car and started walking from Garmisch. Took us almost two days to reach the Kreuzeck hut (plowing through waist-deep snow).

People at the Kreuzeck hutte were (surprise) quite unfriendly. Don't know why that was, as we were making them money. From the Kreuzeck hutte we walked to the Oberfelderkopf. I encountered some annoyed skiers, even though I wasn't on the piste. But only one came up to me to tell me I wasn't supposed to be there.

I continued from the Oberfelderkopf towards the Alpspitze, but basically ran out of time. We had wasted too much time getting up from Garmisch. All in all, I did have a good time. I'll be back to climb it when the snow has melted away a bit (probably may). And I'll make sure to avoid the Germans around there

WouterB wrote:The very unfriendly German people of the Garmisch skilifts didn't allow us to go up. They didn't even allow us to walk up. So we drove 1km, parked the car and started walking from Garmisch. Took us almost two days to reach the Kreuzeck hut (plowing through waist-deep snow).

Oh sorry for that. I don't understand why -1st I never had a similar experience there and 2nd when I was there for the last time in March 2003 quite a number of people climbed the Via Ferrata - but perhaps this increasing number is just the problem for the skiing personnel?

At any rate you seem to have done a great job even without reaching the summit, given the waist-deep snow and the bivy you had before reaching Kreuzeck!

It was tough going, really tough! I think that on a pure fysical level, it might have been one of the hardest things I've done. Plowing through the snow for hours... . But I really enjoyed it. So "untouched"

I think they don´t like people climbing Alpsitze in winter times because they have to rescue so many of them. They might just want to disencourage people to do so.

Some years ago I made the ski hike up to Alpspitze in April (east slope and east arete) and we met two guys at the summit wearing cowboy boots (!! no kidding). They ascended and descended the Nordwand ferrata and they didn´t understand why people were upset about that.

Jubiläumsgrat is more difficult than Alpspitze. As an ascent it is very long even in summer and you have two bits of UIAA III rock climbing involved. That is why most people do it descending.