adventurer wrote:Opinions are like ass holes. Everybody has one!! People who choose to engage in any dangerous activity, including mountaineering, need to understand that they, and they alone, are responsible for their own actions. Climbing team members can choose to follow the team leader, or not. Members can choose to go along with the leader's decisions, or not.

Even the most well intentioned, highly experienced climbers sometimes make mistakes. Shit happens! Nobody learns anything from Monday morning quarterbacking and attempts to assign blame.

The Chief wrote:Censorship, of any sorts, here on SP or anywhere for that matter, is totally against anything that America stands for, young lad.

Dow Williams wrote:my god, Day Hiker is missing this?

kozman18 wrote:

Neophiteat48 wrote: I found his message to Mark rather disgusting.

+1.

The fact that Whillhite deleted his original comments says it all. But he didn't stop there. According to Whillhite: “It is a climbers responsibility to dissect any mountaineering incident in order to learn from the mistakes.” [grammar error in original]. Maybe so, we all learn from our mistakes and those of others. But a climber has no responsibility to shove their dissection into the face of the person involved in the incident. Really, really bad form. Hopefully he will delete this mistake too.

Whillhite’s analysis of Mark’s/Tom’s actions is just hindsight. If I adopted his view of acceptable risk, my pack would weigh 90 pounds and I would never ascend above 8,000 feet.

Finally, not all incidents involve mistakes. Sometimes bad things just happen. That’s the “lesson” I got from this incident.

cp0915 wrote:

The Chief wrote:Censorship, of any sorts, here on SP or anywhere for that matter, is totally against anything that America stands for, young lad.

America, like SP, is governed under a great deal of censorship. To not know that is to ignore the obvious. When's the last time you opened a high school history book? Do you know how much has been left out?

I dig you, dude. And part of that stems from your complete and total unwillingness to admit when you're wrong. But that's okay. I believe your heart's in a good place.

kozman18 wrote:

cp0915 wrote:

The Chief wrote:Censorship, of any sorts, here on SP or anywhere for that matter, is totally against anything that America stands for, young lad.

America, like SP, is governed under a great deal of censorship. To not know that is to ignore the obvious. When's the last time you opened a high school history book? Do you know how much has been left out?

I dig you, dude. And part of that stems from your complete and total unwillingness to admit when you're wrong. But that's okay. I believe your heart's in a good place.

Everyone on SP agreed to some degree of censorship when they signed up. There's a difference between the freedom to have your opinion and the freedom to express it whenever, wherever and however you want. Hell, the Chief had to agree to play extra nice in the sandbox in order to get un-banned (not sure how such an agreement squares with the cry for unfettered freedom).

This argument has been hashed and re-hashed over and over, ad nauseum. It's not the issue here -- this has nothing to do with patriotism (save the flag waving for the next Palin rally).

DMT asked the right question: how do you discuss a mountaineering incident in order to learn from it and yet try to respect the people involved? Tough question.

butitsadryheat wrote:

kozman18 wrote:-- this has nothing to do with patriotism (save the flag waving for the next Palin rally).

The Chief and Palin!?!? That would be RICH!!!

Neophiteat48 wrote:

butitsadryheat wrote:

kozman18 wrote:-- this has nothing to do with patriotism (save the flag waving for the next Palin rally).

The Chief and Palin!?!? That would be RICH!!!

In a debate, I got $100 on Palin

kozman18 wrote:DMT asked the right question: how do you discuss a mountaineering incident in order to learn from it and yet try to respect the people involved? Tough question.

mrchad9 wrote:

Neophiteat48 wrote:

butitsadryheat wrote:

kozman18 wrote:-- this has nothing to do with patriotism (save the flag waving for the next Palin rally).

The Chief and Palin!?!? That would be RICH!!!

In a debate, I got $100 on Palin

HA!!! Does she get to write notes on her hand?

dynamokiev98 wrote:I enjoyed the article..but think it is their own business (that argument between "eric" and PW). "Eric" can say whatever he wants and I guess if you don't agree you can cry about it in this thread or just not pay attention to this clown.
Why do we all have to judge someone, why create this idiotic thread?

FortMental wrote:

kozman18 wrote:DMT asked the right question: how do you discuss a mountaineering incident in order to learn from it and yet try to respect the people involved? Tough question.

Neophiteat48 wrote:In a debate, I got $100 on Palin