Did Mallory and Irvine reach the summit of Everest?

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Andinistaloco

 
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Re: Did Mallory and Irvine reach the summit of Everest?

by Andinistaloco » Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:58 pm

Dadndave, don't worry about what the trolls say. Anyone who logs onto a climbing message board in order to post one-liner crap like "who gives a fuck, man" deserves to be ignored.

Critics are like eunuchs in a harem - they know how it's done, they've seen it done... but they can't do it.

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Martin Cash

 
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Re: Did Mallory and Irvine reach the summit of Everest?

by Martin Cash » Wed Apr 27, 2005 6:14 pm

Didn't Anker say the second step was 5.10? Neither Mallory or Irvine were climbing anywhere close to that in the 1920s, let alone at 28,000 feet.

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Re: Did Mallory and Irvine reach the summit of Everest?

by dadndave » Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:25 pm

Yes. Anker rated it a "solid 5.10" There is apparently and easier route up the step to the right of the crack Anker climbed but very exposed and the rock is rotten. There is also some speculation that the step was bypassed and that the axe found was a marker for this alternative placed there the day before by Mallory.
The strawman is evil and must be punished,

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Johan Heersink

 
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Re: Did Mallory and Irvine reach the summit of Everest?

by Johan Heersink » Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:08 pm

Not out of disrespect for them, (they were brave, great men, far ahead of their time), but they did not make it. Anyway it was a failure as they did not come down alive.

Climbwild might be somewhat right that we are wasting good cyberspace here: If we would pay as much attention to all the climbers that have died in the mountains, Summitpost would need a bigger server!

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Scott
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Re: Did Mallory and Irvine reach the summit of Everest?

by Scott » Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:14 pm

<i>Didn't Anker say the second step was 5.10? Neither Mallory or Irvine were climbing anywhere close to that in the 1920s, let alone at 28,000 feet.</i>

Yes, but the step can be bypassed. It was skied around on the first ski descent of the north ridge. We will probably never know.

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Re: Did Mallory and Irvine reach the summit of Everest?

by JScoles » Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:33 pm

Funny thing about Anker statement is that he initially said it was an easy 5.8 which Mallory would have no problem with but his he added it at the altitude it would feel like a 5.10.

In the last little while he has been saying it is 5.10 and not 5.8 so I guess he is embellishing a little over time (not surprising as he is in the business of making himself look hard)

As we do not know the condition of the step when Mallory was there who is to say what it was like. It could have been much harder or easer, For example, it could have been full of snow and they might not of even noticed it which has happened to a number of other parties over the years.

Just no way of knowing? Would be nice if they made it.

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Re: Did Mallory and Irvine reach the summit of Everest?

by Nelson » Thu Apr 28, 2005 6:05 pm

Of course I have an opinion on this subject, but am pleased that we don't <i>really</i> know the answer. I hope it stays that way, and that Somervell's camera was long ago devoured by a yeti.

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Re: Did Mallory and Irvine reach the summit of Everest?

by Scott » Sat Apr 30, 2005 5:16 am

<i>One interseting point he makes which I had not heard before is that Mallory always carried a picture of his wife on his climbs and then left the picture on the summit of any mountain he successfully climbed. </i>

Really? This makes the event more confusing because all the books I've read on the subject said that Mallory carried a picture of his wife up the mountain to leave on the summit, but that it <i>wasn't</i> found with the body in May 1999. This is one of the arguements used for the possibility of them summiting. Perhaps other sources are incorrect on the matter?

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Re: Did Mallory and Irvine reach the summit of Everest?

by Klenke » Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:44 am

It's like this. Look only at the semantics. Disregard anything that happens after the summit has been made because it is immaterial. One rule: the summit. That's it.

The words are "First <b>Ascent</b>." And by ascent we're talking about <i>climbing</i> up the peak, not taking a helicopter to the top or to some point that's close to the summit thereby making the "climb" trivial.

If a first ascensionist were to die on the way down where does one draw the line that his/her success is now invalid?
Scenarios:
1. Climber makes it down to easier terrain but is mauled by a bear and dies? Does he get the FA? YES.
2. Climber makes it down and sails home (like the climbers of yore). Ship sinks in ocean. He drowns. Does he get the FA? YES.
3. Climber makes it down and gets hit by a car and dies right outside of his house 3,000 miles away from the summit he has just made the FA of? Does he get the FA? YES.

Furthermore, what if two (or more) people make the first ascent but one of them dies on the descent? Do you now list only the survivor as the first ascensionist? What if he could not have made it without the guidance/belay/leading of the guy who died?

With one rule (The Summit), it's easy to make a determination. Forget what Hillary said. He's biased anyway toward Mallory & Irvine.

If you want to create a new terminology such as "First Success" then have at it.

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Diego Sahagún

 
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Re: Did Mallory and Irvine reach the summit of Everest?

by Diego Sahagún » Wed May 04, 2005 10:55 am

<a href=//www.everestnews.com/mallory2005/mallory2005update05022005.htm>Mallory and Irvine The Final Chapter Everest 2005: SNOW!</a>

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Re: Did Mallory and Irvine reach the summit of Everest?

by big_g » Wed May 04, 2005 8:09 pm

Thank you. My sentiments exactly. First to climb a mountian is just that. The descent is something different.

If the first people to reach the moon died on re-entry, would people say "it didn't count"? Of course not.

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Re: Did Mallory and Irvine reach the summit of Everest?

by Andinistaloco » Wed May 04, 2005 8:40 pm

I'm with you, Klenke - you climb it, it's your FA.

However I think Hillary can rest assured... There's very little that could be found now that would prove that Mallory either made it or didn't... I doubt we'll ever KNOW.....

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Diego Sahagún

 
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Re: Did Mallory and Irvine reach the summit of Everest?

by Diego Sahagún » Mon May 09, 2005 11:58 pm

<a href=//www.everestnews.com/mallory2005/mallory2005update05092005.htm>Mallory and Irvine The Final Chapter Everest 2005: We could use George Mallory's help</a>

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Diego Sahagún

 
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Re: Did Mallory and Irvine reach the summit of Everest?

by Diego Sahagún » Tue May 10, 2005 10:44 pm

<a href=//www.everestnews.com/mallory2005/mallory2005update05102005.htm>Mallory and Irvine The Final Chapter Everest 2005: STAY DOWN and no fixed ropes where we are going</a>

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Re: Did Mallory and Irvine reach the summit of Everest?

by Johan Heersink » Wed May 11, 2005 2:45 pm

There are two things

- Succesfull ascent of a summit, if you reach the highest point, this condition is met.

- Concluding a climb successfully: To meet this one you have to come down alive again to the foot of the mountain, (Crashing with the airplane on the way home or something does not count, as it has nothing to do with the mountain and the climbing)

It might be that a summit is made, but that does not yet make it successfully concluding a climb: Dying on the way down is just bad mountaineering!

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