Quick question.
I recently bought Nepal Evo Boots from La Sportiva. Let me tell you, they are amazing! I love that they are light and have a little more flex around the ankle since they are leather. They also have the same stiff sole and welts like plastic boots. The problem is, last time I went winter mountaineering (Drift Peak) my feet got really cold! It was a very cold day, below zero for sure once wind chill was added. I wore two layers of socks, but that did not help. I acutally think the first layer maybe was too tight and was constricting the blood flow. I did not tie the boots extra tight, but they were still fairly cold.

Any suggestions? I love these boots and fear that I have some bad circulation. Any socks out there that would be good for keeping my feet warm. Should I wear looser socks? I have even hear of electric socks (a little absurd)!? Do these work. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Dan

MMD- Here are my recommendations based on experience living in North Dakota for the last decade. 1) Don't constrict blood flow either by wearing too thick socks or tying your laces too tight. I agree with Adventurer--wear a light liner sock and a medium to heavy wool sock (depending on how much room you have in your boot). 2) Make sure your boots are not soaking up too much water. Even though most boots have a waterproof membrane, the leather (and other materials to some degree) can soak up water and cause alot of conductive heat loss. If your leather is getting too wet, use a high quality weatherproofing. 3) Take a minute or two every so often and consciously wiggle your toes. It sounds basic, but I've found that it works very well when my toes are getting a bit cold. 4) I have not used either chemical heaters or battery powered socks for one simple reason, my feet tend to sweat excessively when they get too warm, and wet feet are cold feet. Using these methods, I have had warm feet down to 20 below (excluding wind chill) just using moderately insulated leathers.

Make sure you try out any stuff you put into additionally into your boots before you head anywhere where it is really cold.
I do not use chemical heaters for a simple reason - they take up much space inside the boots and cut of circulation. Plus, there usefullness seems limited in high altitudes apparently (well they depend on O2 to set of an exothermic reaction; but maybe mine simply sucked).
The same - as you mentioned - holds true for too thick/too many socks.

Here is my recepy for warm feet - warm liners (I use ski mountaineering boots exclusively as I ski almost everything I climb, and would opt for plastics if I needed to buy boots - liners are easier to dry than leather boots), enough toe space, thick whool socks (Smart Wool or Dalgren, Dahlgren fits thinner/flatter feet better, Smart Wool are baggy), perhaps some garlic to increase circulation (I prefer those over Aspirin) if it gets really cold.

Moving the toes helps, as well as having the entire body warm.

But you are not the only one suffering. I have bad circulation and get quickly cold toes and fingers. I have the most hope in liners, and will experimentate with those a bit. What is comes down to is that people that get cold feet easily need warm boots - socks have their limitations and I think a solid warm boot is the key (better a warm boot with thin socks than a cold one with thick socks).

Cheers,
Peter

In addition to the suggestions mentioned above, keep your legs warm too. I've found that when my legs are cold, my feet are cold, even in relatively warm weather; when my legs are warm, my feet are usually warm too (provided I don't have any serious problem with boots being too tight or socks being wet).

BTW, why is this thread under "Forums Home -> South America"?

Thanks for all of the advice, I think I will try several of these options over the next two weeks before I head to the top of Shermann to spend the night on a 14er. Thanks for all the input.

Dan

sorry this is in the S. America forum, I must have just created a new topic without looking!

When I want to use "normal" single layer lighter boots, but fear it can be too cold, I always throw my Bask super gaiters in my backback.
They have given me enough warmth on high peaks, even if I've been going in light mountaineering boots.
The only catch with these is that they only works with crampons on.

Here's some info about them:
http://www.bask.info/catalog/accessories/bahilly/9030/

But there wasn't a picture there, so here's one:

Hey Corax - those look pretty damn toasty. One question, though - why won't they work except with crampons? This could be a major snag, as under certain conditions, you wouldn't be wearing crampons, even if it's cold as hell. Could those be rigged to work without crampons?

Walt,
Those over-boots (same kind as "below 40"), cover completely your soles from beneath. If you are on snow and ice, it's OK as you rely on your snow-shoes or crampons for grip; if you are on other kind of terrain then no sole no grip ! (not mentioning the over-boots lower end would wear-out fast ) In this case you have the "super-gaiters" solution: their lower end features 2 holes for the front and the rear of the sole. The 2 holes are separated by a strip that fits into the central grove of the sole.
Check the following link; this is what I had added on my leather trekking boots on Aconcagua:
climbhigh gaiters

Dan,
This is from another topic in this forum (“Ecuador” / page 1). I have a pair of even lighter leather boots than yours, yet I set things so that I was able to use them on 5000m / 6000m summits in the Andes (By the way I finally ended-up buying a pair of Millet Shivling rated -40C / -40F )

“…Most people had plastic boots on Cotopaxi and Chimborazo.
I believe a pair of insulated mountaineering leather boots should be enough if you make sure your toes are not compressed (limiting blood circulation) even with a thick pair of socks and after few hours of walk. Furthermore, you may want to keep the boots inside your sleeping bag during the night.
As far as me, in order to travel light I chose to go with only one pair of footwear the whole trip, both for cities and summits: opted for my very comfortable Millet Alti (heavy trekking leather boots) rigid enough for crampons, yet flexible enough to run with, but with minor insulation (isotherm 0 according to Millet ). On Chimborazo I took the inner soles out to free room for my 2 thick pairs of socks and added Ecuadorian made not insulated over-boots (kind of Climb High Super Gaiters but with out the “Thinsulate” layer) for wind protection. @ - 15C + wind I reached the limit for this combination.”

Thin Air wrote:I do not use chemical heaters for a simple reason - they take up much space inside the boots and cut of circulation. Plus, there usefullness seems limited in high altitudes apparently (well they depend on O2 to set of an exothermic reaction; but maybe mine simply sucked).
Cheers,
Peter

Gruss Got Peter ! You're right, those things don't work in high altitude most probably, as you mentionned, due to lack of O2. I tried 2 (different brands) at 5900m nothing noticeable happened.
Tschuss

Hey MMD:

I don't wear the boots you mentioned but one trick I use when my feet get cold is to stand and swing my legs back and forth to drive the blood flow towards my feet. This tends to force warm blood to your feet and works well on places like the ice headwall on Denali. Another thing about keeping warm in winter is to eat a lot of fat in your diet which generates a lot of heat while being digested.

Awesome advice guys. I think that I am going to hold off on the overboot for a while, but I think that this is a very good option for larger peaks, which I will hopefully being doing in a year or so.

For now I have bought a different combonation of socks and liners and have removed the cushion 'lip' in the boots, giving me a little more room to wiggle the toes to keep warm. I will also try the leg swinging technique and eating lots of fats while on a trip.

I am headed back to the tenmiles this weekend after a successfull summit of Drift (13,900) and will try another 13er in the range in similar snow conditions. I really love the boots, and spent a lot of money on them as well. I have seen lots of people wearing these on higher peaks that what I have thus far attempted, so I am sure that they work, I just need to figure out what works best for me.

Thanks for the advice, I will let you know how it goes this weekend in the Tenmiles.

Dan

Ario - thanks for the info. I think I was confusing them with the old supergaiters which didn't cover the sole. Appreciate the link too. Good climbing to you!

Ario wrote:

Thin Air wrote:I do not use chemical heaters for a simple reason - they take up much space inside the boots and cut of circulation. Plus, there usefullness seems limited in high altitudes apparently (well they depend on O2 to set of an exothermic reaction; but maybe mine simply sucked).
Cheers,
Peter

Gruss Got Peter ! You're right, those things don't work in high altitude most probably, as you mentionned, due to lack of O2. I tried 2 (different brands) at 5900m nothing noticeable happened.
Tschuss

OK, danke, good to know that my theory holds true, and that they are not worth to try around with any further.

Cheers, Gruß,
Peter

Try taking Ginko biloba, at about 60mg a day for 2 weeks before your climb. Ginko has been claimed to help with altitude but this has been mostly disproven. What is true however is that it boosts peripheral circulation, this is why it is "claimed" to impove memory function because it increases bloodflow to the brain. I'm not sure how much bloodflow imporves memory but it definitly helps keep my fingers and toes warm.