Ok. This is my first post. I have been performing technical rescue rappelling for years and am accustomed to how we do this in the fire service. However, I am wanting to start doing some recreational rappelling/mountaineering while hiking. I have a BW BWII 11.4mm static 200' rope (this thing is massive), but I can not see taking this thing on a over night hike and doing some small 50 to 100 foot raps while on the trails. So my question is what kind of rope would I use for this to be safe/durable but not take up my entire Deuter Pack.

I am in Alabama and most of the raps I will be doing is rock cliffs, waterfalls that can be found along the Appalachian Trail area.

Again, I understand static ropes, but this talk about half, twins, doubles and whatever else I do not get so please be specific when you reply.

I hear most people talking about mountaineering ropes to be 8mm and dynamic, but if most of the mountaineering is raps, then why not a static rope?

Any guidance is welcome.

Thanks, Jeff

jgfore wrote:...Again, I understand static ropes, but this talk about half, twins, doubles and whatever else I do not get so please be specific when you reply.

I hear most people talking about mountaineering ropes to be 8mm and dynamic, but if most of the mountaineering is raps, then why not a static rope?

Any guidance is welcome.

Thanks, Jeff

Well, *if* you were going to ALWAYS do rapelling (and nothing else), a static rope might be ok. However, the time probably will come when you want to climb, and that's where a dynamic is called for: it absorbs some of the shock of your fall. Climbing (and then falling on) a static would be like using a chain. It would hurt.

The half, twin, double ropes are used when climbing and you don't want to put all your protection on one rope only. Rockfall, ice tool, climbing axe, crampons all can cut a rope and if you happen to cut the only one you have while you're "off the ground", you'll probably be in a tight spot.

There will be other replies, and from folks with more intimate knowledge and experience on that subject than I, but that's the gist of it.

So is using a dynamic rope for rappelling an absolute No, No.

I was thinking about getting a larger dynamic rope (say 9mm -10mm) in hopes that it would do all I want. ??

So is using a dynamic rope for rappelling an absolute No, No.

No. A static rope is better for rappelling because it's easier to pull and because it has less wear from rappelling over edges, etc., but dynamic ropes can be and are often used for rappelling.

You don't want to climb with a static rope though, because as mentioned it doesn't stretch to absorb shock.

If you are doing strictly rappelling and nothing else, then a static line is best. If you are doing any roped climbing at all, you need a dynamic rope (which can also be used for rappelling).

jgfore wrote:So is using a dynamic rope for rappelling an absolute No, No.

Oh, it's fine, and I do it (occasionally), but my experience so far has been limited to a gym or outdoor tower of only 40 - 60'. If you're going down a cliff of 100' or so, there may be considerations that I've not thought of (other than a little "bounce" as you descend) that may be important. But if you want one rope for both purposes, then get a dynamic. Again, someone with more outdoor experience than I will step in here and advise.

jgfore wrote:I was thinking about getting a larger dynamic rope (say 9mm -10mm) in hopes that it would do all I want. ??

That should work just fine, but confer with the seller well before you buy. Explain what you want to do, and under what conditions and they should lead you to the best rope for your intended purpose. I don't have enough experience (yet) with outdoor rope usage to give a *good* answer. There is dry rope, non-dry rope (selection depends on whether you intend to use it in a wet environment, and it sounds like you will, so consider paying extra for dry rope), whether you want the weave/dye to be different on each half (makes identifying the middle of the rope easier - which you want to keep in mind when rapelling) and various other aspects.

Read up the data on various manufacturer's websites, that will give you a place to start when asking questions of the vendor.

If you're just going to rappel, as in canyoneering, give up your 11.4mm beast and go with something like a 9.2mm semi-static rope.

Augie Medina wrote:If you're just going to rappel, as in canyoneering, give up your 11.4mm beast and go with something like a 9.2mm semi-static rope.

Semi-Static?!?! I have never heard of such. I will have to research that. Thanks

Doing Technical Rescue, I use Seriously Heavy Duty Equipment, and The thoughts of rappelling down a rope that is the same size as the cord I use for Pursiks (8mm) is a little scary!

Rapping off even a 6mm rope is fine...you just need a smaller belay device to sufficiently have enough friction. Mountaineering with anything thicker than a 10mm is rarely done anymore. I never use static ropes because I also climb so the way I see it, I don't want to have to hoard static and dynamic ropes when dynamic ropes serve for both climbing and rappelling. Even when I go canyoneering, I just bring my dynamic ropes.

If you're only doing rappelling over cliffs 50 feet high or less, I would recommend the purple 8mm diameter 30 meter mountaineering rope made by Edelweiss. It's small and light. If you need a 60 meter rope for cliffs over 50 feet, I would recommend a half rope in the 7-8mm diameter range.

For climbing in the mountains, I use 60 meter double ropes 8mm in diameter. For cragging, I use a 60 meter 9.5 mm rope. For glacier travel, I use that same purple 30m rope I described above.

Matt Lemke wrote:If you're only doing rappelling over cliffs 50 feet high or less, I would recommend the purple 8mm diameter 30 meter mountaineering rope made by Edelweiss. It's small and light. If you need a 60 meter rope for cliffs over 50 feet, I would recommend a half rope in the 7-8mm diameter range.

For climbing in the mountains, I use 60 meter double ropes 8mm in diameter. For cragging, I use a 60 meter 9.5 mm rope. For glacier travel, I use that same purple 30m rope I described above.

I looked at the "purple 8mm diameter 30 meter mountaineering rope made by Edelweiss" on REI.com. It states that it is a "twin" rope and should only be used with another identical twin rope, and only in a twin rope system.

I hate to sound like a novice to the mountaineering community (even though I am), but I do not understand the concept of twin ropes.

How is a twin rope different? I think that I just want a rope that can be used independently without the need for an additional rope.

Obviously I am used to using a rescue rack and rescue 8, and would not want to used either of these while sport rappelling, but I got the BD ATC Guide for a decender device. Is this sufficient to use on such a thin rope. * I would be using an autoblock as well.*

When I use this rope I will be using a biner block anchor for anchor retrieval. This will require me to have more than just 30M. I checked the local falls nearby and they are 65'-75' tall. So I believe I will have to go with a 60M rope.

After a lot of research I am thinking that the Bluewater 9mm CanyonLine Rope may be the ticket. It is small, has a 6400 lbf. tensile strength and is considered a Low Elongation rope since it has more stretch than a static but not as much as a Dynamic. It seems as though it may be the best of both worlds and it is thin enough to strap to the top of my pack.

Let me know what you all think.

From your questions it's clear that you're not going to be doing (at least, you shouldn't if you value your life) any climbing anytime soon, so let's focus on ropes that will hold you for rappelling. Don't worry about the differences between "single" "double" and "twin" dynamic ropes, you won't be using them for climbing so you don't have to worry about pairing them up correctly.

A rope around 8mm (static, dynamic, semi-dynamic, doesn't matter much) will be more than strong enough and have plenty of durability margin. The main reason not to go even skinnier is that extremely skinny ropes can be tricky to use with some belay devices, ascenders, descenders, and prusiks. Plus, they tend to be specialist ropes and therefore hard to find and/or expensive. The main reason not to go thicker is weight. If the 9mm canyoneering rope is light enough for you, stick with that.

An ATC Guide will work fine with a rope of 8mm diameter, but if you're going to be doing a lot of rappels, especially long ones, you should consider a specialized descender. An ATC will heat up a lot and will also twist the rope.

If you use an 8mm or even 9mm rope, you should get a narrower cord for your prusiks/autoblocks; they behave differently (less bite) when the prusik cord diameter is very close to the diameter of the rappel rope. 6mm is a normal prusik cord diameter for use with ropes 8mm-11mm. Practice from ground level first, duh.

60M is a standard rope length and will be easy to find. Stick to the anchor techniques that you can do safely, but FYI it's possible to make a retrievable anchor with a separate, thinner & lighter "tag line" so you don't have to carry so much rope.

nartreb wrote:From your questions it's clear that you're not going to be doing (at least, you shouldn't if you value your life) any climbing anytime soon, so let's focus on ropes that will hold you for rappelling. Don't worry about the differences between "single" "double" and "twin" dynamic ropes, you won't be using them for climbing so you don't have to worry about pairing them up correctly.

A rope around 8mm (static, dynamic, semi-dynamic, doesn't matter much) will be more than strong enough and have plenty of durability margin. The main reason not to go even skinnier is that extremely skinny ropes can be tricky to use with some belay devices, ascenders, descenders, and prusiks. Plus, they tend to be specialist ropes and therefore hard to find and/or expensive. The main reason not to go thicker is weight. If the 9mm canyoneering rope is light enough for you, stick with that.

+1

But if you must know the difference between half/twin/single
http://bealplanet.com/sport/anglais/typecorde.php

A single rated rope will definitly be more confidence inspiring, but will weigh alot more.

I don't own a static rope. I just use my dynamics for raps. I don't know that I would ever own a static because I like the idea of having a little shock absorbancy in the system just in case.(although if you get in a situation where you need it when rapping then you are probably doing something you shouldn't be doing. Also dynamics stretch under body weight; thinner ropes can stretch alot. This can cause a sawing action if you have the rope ran over a sharp edge. Dynamics are better for this.

jgfore wrote:When I use this rope I will be using a biner block anchor for anchor retrieval.

Not that there is anything wrong with this, but there are simpler(quicker) methods comonly used. If you have a tube style device like an ATC or a reverso you can just rappel down both strands. Make sure that your belay device is compatible with whatever diameter rope you use.

If you are not planning on using this rope in the rain or for canyons I would skip the extra cost of a dry treated rope.

norco17 wrote:...Not that there is anything wrong with this, but there are simpler(quicker) methods commonly used. If you have a tube style device like an ATC or a reverso you can just rappel down both strands. Make sure that your belay device is compatible with whatever diameter rope you use...

Might I suggest that you pair up with someone who's done this before (make that someone who actually knows what they're doing) before you head out the first time or two.

A couple of (general) things that I can think of immediately:

1) Tie a knot in the middle of the rope and attach it to the anchor at that point...wait, THAT won't work.. if you want your rope back... Stick to idea two below.....

2) Tie knots in each of the ends of the rope so one doesn't slip through your belay device.

Again, several here who have more experience than I can chime in with specific details, or better ideas, but those are two things that I'd do.
From what I've read, more accidents/deaths occur while rapelling than climbing.

Bluewater 9mm CanyonLine will work fine for your rappelling needs. Do you rappel a lot where you hike? Do you need to bring rappel anchors with your?

Right now I am just rappelling in a very small park, that is a top a mountain and has a beautiful view of the country side and has parking 75' from the bluffs. This is were I use my 11.4mm static. I have never rapped where I hike before. this is what I am wanting to get setup for. Yes I would have to take everything that I need (ie,. harness, anchors, rope, ascenders, etc.) along for the hike.

I have a small section of 8 or 9 mm dynamic (about 30'-50'), and hung it from the ceiling in my basement. I connected to it as thought I was going on a Big Wall Rap (had everything on me). I used both the BD ATC and the DB ATC Guide, I almost could not stop myself!! I tied a super munter hitch to my carabineer and that was better. If I go with a 8-9mm rope, would a rescue rack or a piranha work better for a nice rappel?