OJ Loenneker wrote:

DubiouslyDoubtful wrote:I find it a little odd that, with all the comments about the "fun" and "excitement" of the climb, I don't see any mention of the "fun" and "excitement" that the rescuers must be experiencing as they put their lives on the line for the benefit of people just getting their jollies.

Heartfelt condolences to all the friends and families of the climbers--and the rescuers

Yet another moron chimes in...

Moron?

I think not.

Reads of an opine from someone who wears the boots and has done so for some time. An opine of an individual that is heartbroken and tired of hauling down the big black heavy bag/s.

That aspect of this game really, really sucks... trust me.

My prayers go out to the folks out there on SAR line and the families back at home.

Alright, a young dude's got some question as to how this kind of stuff happens. I'm fresh into Mountaineering, have been into hiking for some time, but don't understand how this happens.

First, you decide to climb Hood, how long does a winter ascent usually take, 2-3 days? That being said, you bring food for 4, maybe 5 days, yes? You start hiking, and a huge winter storm hits. This is where I'm getting lost, were these hikers not sensible, did they decide to keep climbing? Wouldn't you just hunker down, dig a small ditch, put your tent in it and wait? Did they get caught in an avalanche?

I've read the articles regarding this story, and from what I understand they were well-equipped and experience. Is this just the un-luck of the draw?

I've ordered my copy of Freedom of the Hills, and until that arrives, anyone care to answer my questions?

Generally speaking I don't think it is fair to second guess anybody in these situations - unless they have left a suicide note, nobody is looking for death or injury on mountains. Unfortunately it can come in any number of ways: hubris, gear failure, acts of nature, mistake, inexperience, etc.

taxinvestor wrote:Generally speaking I don't think it is fair to second guess anybody in these situations.

Precisely. There are advantages to a fanst'n'light alipine ascent. You are less prepared for an extended stay, but you do have greater mobility which IS a boon to safety. Even if they only had a days worth of food, I wouldn't call them underprepared. They were prepared for what they had set out to do, and something outside the scope of their planning happened. What that was, we may never know.

lowlands wrote:First, you decide to climb Hood, how long does a winter ascent usually take, 2-3 days?

One day.

lowlands wrote:That being said, you bring food for 4, maybe 5 days, yes?

No, it is only a one day climb

lowlands wrote: You start hiking, and a huge winter storm hits. This is where I'm getting lost, were these hikers not sensible, did they decide to keep climbing? Wouldn't you just hunker down, dig a small ditch, put your tent in it and wait? Did they get caught in an avalanche>

I've read the articles regarding this story, and from what I understand they were well-equipped and experience. Is this just the un-luck of the draw?

Nobody knows what this party did or did not do.

Very sad... I still remember the tragedy that unfolded in 2006. (I belive at least one of them was an SP member.)

I have read stories about climbers surviving harsh mountain conditions ifor upwards of a couple of weeks- so I am not yet giving up on these two guys.

My thoughts are with the friends and families of each of the three climbers.

The kids who survived more than a week in the snow cave on Hood were on a milder route, were backpacking, had a shovel, a fair amount of food, and a stove. My former boss holed up in an emergency snow cave for 4 days, but he had a shovel.

I don't understand why everybody is saying that they were unprepared and are foolish. For all you know the other two are in a snow cave waiting to be rescued. If they survive a week until rescue comes, are they unprepared? were they foolish? It might not have been the best time to set out for the trip but you don't know what happened. For all we know one could be immobile due to injury and another built a snow cave and stayed with them while the third tried to book it back to get help. Nobody knows what mistakes if any were or were not made at this point. So get off their back and hope for their safe return. I'm sure they did not plan for a 4+ night stay, but if someone was injured and a storm came in, that kind of changes things. Look at Aron Ralston, he sets out without telling anyone his detailed plans, finds himself between a rock and a hard place, has to cut a limb off, and is now regarded as one of the top survival stories of all time. What if these other two survive, then they obviously were prepared well enough.

The $5 location device is another issues, I have my opinion, but don't think they're important right now. All that is important are that the other two are found. I respect opinions both for and against mandating people carry such equipment on them, however I can think of a million other laws that aren't followed, or a million more causes of death that laws to prohibit would be a better interest of time.

The thing that is troubling to me is that just about everywhere on the south side of Mt. Hood and all the way to the summit you can get good cell reception. The fact that these two have not made any contact with authorities is a bad sign in my opinion. There was cell phone contact made in both of the last two high profile Mt. Hood accidents. Of course they could have gone without a phone, but that would be foolish in its own right. As far as equipment, does anybody know if this was just a day trip or if they had a camp set-up near Illumination rock?

As somebody said above, there was a SP member(Jerry Cooke aka Fuggedaboudit) in the 2006 accident. He was the guy that they found in the snow cave and who made a couple of phone calls before the phone ran out of juice. On that note, does anybody know if they ever found the other two guys from the 2006 tragedy?

Wrong, the man in the cave was Terry James. His wife wrote a book about the experience and has made the circuit of all the talk shows as well.

http://www.amazon.com/Holding-Fast-Unto ... 1595551751

Bryan W wrote:Of course they could have gone without a phone, but that would be foolish in its own right.

Really?

Relying on a communication device to save your ass rather than experience, equipment and good judgement is foolish.

Bryan W wrote:The thing that is troubling to me is that just about everywhere on the south side of Mt. Hood and all the way to the summit you can get good cell reception. The fact that these two have not made any contact with authorities is a bad sign in my opinion. There was cell phone contact made in both of the last two high profile Mt. Hood accidents. Of course they could have gone without a phone, but that would be foolish in its own right. As far as equipment, does anybody know if this was just a day trip or if they had a camp set-up near Illumination rock?

As somebody said above, there was a SP member(Jerry Cooke aka Fuggedaboudit) in the 2006 accident. He was the guy that they found in the snow cave and who made a couple of phone calls before the phone ran out of juice. On that note, does anybody know if they ever found the other two guys from the 2006 tragedy?

The other two climbers from the incident in 2006 you are refering to are still missing...

The book is available at the local library.

I read it, but it deals mostly with Terry James' wife's experiences. People she talked with, etc. Waiting at a local hotel with her family... hoping in vain... trying to avoid the reporters when she was not really in a talkative mood... telephone calls she made with family... the details she gathered from the people who found her husband's body.

One thing was clear... the climbers put a lot of pre-planning into this... bought airplane tickets... arranged time off from work... managed to agree on a date to go... etc. It's hard to go home empty-handed after all that... so they took a try for the summit. The climbers KNEW they were on a tight schedule before bad weather set in.

ScottyP wrote:Wrong, the man in the cave was Terry James. His wife wrote a book about the experience and has made the circuit of all the talk shows as well.

http://www.amazon.com/Holding-Fast-Unto ... 1595551751

I read this. From a climbers standpoint it was awful. From a weepy christian wife standpoint, it probably sets the standard.
As someone who generally travels far and plans early for climbs, it is a drag to not summit, but worse to end up in a bad situation. IMO you can't judge because you just don't know the exact factors when they were making decisions.