People will surprise you.

Once I did a solo climb and came back and wrote about it. In my report I revealed that I felt comforted by another party on the route, and that if I really, really needed a belay I could ask them for it.

A person I respected tore me a new one for that, and rightly so, I eventually understood.

I firmly agree that the moment "other people" unwittingly enter into your plans you are on indefensible ground. People throw that idea around way too much. I hear it too much when people talk about crossing glaciers unroped.

Solo climbing is not all that bad. Many people (including mountain climbers), however, cannot get that idea, just cannot accept the fact that there are people not only skilled enough to but who also love being in solitude. And obviously I'm not referring here to Avalanche Gulch on Mt Shasta in the popular season.

AG is a perfect route to learn, to practice, and to gain some basic mountaineering experience in a challenging but "reasonably safe" environment. What else can one dream of? I agree with all posts above because everything mentioned is based on facts, but it does not mean it would happen to azzi over this weekend. It is correct that he is dangerously determined to succeed but real wisdom comes with experience, and he needs to gain this experience. AG is the optimized choice to gain some experience due to its characteristics and the fact it's over 14,000 high.

As I mentioned in my previous post, it would be very unlikely to be solo on that route on a "nice weekend." This could be a perfect opportunity for him to learn from others, just by observing other climbers' behavior, where and when they go, as well as the surroundings such as what's happening with the snow and the sky. Due to his determination just imagine him taking the same route during the weekdays in bad weather conditions; no one to get any feedback from, no ranger to turn him back and so on. Not to mention his family worries and SAR efforts in case of his disappearance. So I would say he is OK, he did his homework as well as learned from you on this thread. It does not matter if he summits or not, the experience he gains matters.

If I told you the way I learned mountaineering you would most likely have banned me from all mountains. However, this is another story.

"As I mentioned in my previous post, it would be very unlikely to be solo on that route on a 'nice weekend.'"

Wrong, if you go to the mountain to climb alone you are going solo, regardless of the routes popularity. See my posts above. Relying on the fact that there are other climbers there is straight up negligence.

And personally I have no problem with solo climbing and do it quite often, however you would never catch me going somewhere over my head, or on the limits of my ability simply because other climbers are going to be around.

"you would never catch me going somewhere over my head, or on the limits of my ability simply because other climbers are going to be around” (JB99)

I agree with this, but how would you know the limits of [your] ability without testing it? Guided trips are expensive, this guy has no money. Finding the right and reliable partner is not that easy. If you live in the West Coast your options are way higher than in the East Coast. You can try "solo” or join other people as many times as you wish because it requires much less time, much less money, and much less overall effort. This guy wants to climb and is putting everything in to that trip. That's the spirit. That's the predisposition for a real mountaineer. Mountaineering is a very dangerous activity by definition so are other things. There are always people on one side against everything and pioneers of changes.

"Solo climbing is not bravery but skill and responsibility. You need to be able to rescue yourself.” (clmbr)

"...climbing responsibly, particularly solo, is about being ready for and expectant of what you'll do if shit happens." (JB99)

So you just rephrased my point.

"And being on a popular route with a bunch of strangers that you hope will bail your ass out doesn't fit that criteria.” (JB99)

It's good to hope but it does not mean it would come true. But he does not know this that's why the word hope. One thing is hoping that these "bunch of strangers” will help you against their agenda, but another thing is these "bunch of strangers” will not help you because they would not take a risk. And you never know what these "bunch of strangers” are composed of. Nevertheless, would you rather go to a city park during the day with a lot of crowd present or at night alone?

Everyone has different acceptable levels of risk, and the internet has enough armchair mountaineers like me to "ban" just about everyone of every persuation from doing anything. Thank God nobody has to listen to us. But there is a difference between testing your abilities, going out solo with a bit of nerve and hope, and seeming to ask for validation to do something anyway despite a laundry list of weak points and uncertainties. Why ask and share so much? Better don't, for such cases. People are usually friendly and wishing novices good luck for things, but there is some kind of line and just a look at the length of this thread indicates it's been crossed!

mvs wrote:People are usually friendly and wishing novices good luck for things, but there is some kind of line and just a look at the length of this thread indicates it's been crossed!

You are making good points. And at first reading this thread a couple of days or so ago I suspected the post to be a joke to just initiate such a discussion. And if it was true, he has already succeeded.

But on the other hand, if he was honest and so determined to go, I would rather give him some tips (not an advice) how to stay of trouble than hate him for trying it. Constructive criticism is always healthy regardless we like it or not. However, scary tactic has usually opposite effect.

Why don’t we wait for his conclusion of this thread? If you still would like to discuss solo mountaineering skills, challenges, rewords, and ethics topic we could always open a separate thread. But I’m guessing we all would have similar opinions.

@climbr -personally I learn my limits through a natural progression of climbs, like most people I would think. This doesn't require expensive guided trips. It sounds like we mostly agree on the merits of and the responsibilities of solo climbing. In the case of this thread's OP it was pretty clear after reading just the thread title that what he was planning (and presumably has now done) was outside of the boundaries of what most people (judging by the reactions to the thread and common sense) would consider responsible solo climbing.

And my main point, and reason for responding to this thread in the first place was because I think telling someone that it's okay if he's doing something potentially over his head because there are other people around is really, really bad advice.

I also don't agree that "mountaineering is a very dangerous activity" though, if it is then you are doing something wrong...

OOG wrote:Honestly, with all the spray and drama this thread has produced, I wonder if a slight rephrasing of your question would have produced different results. I've seen a few threads with a nearly identical OP but with decent advice and none of the bullshit. Actually I can think of one major difference, you seem to have done at least some of your homework first, whereas most of the other posters want other people to do the research for them. You had a plan that you wanted to back up with some advice from people with first hand experience with the mountain and the response from some was to throw shit in your face.

In my opinion, the critics here have been remarkably restrained. There have been way, way worse threads like this one here in the past. I'm talking as a member, not a moderator.

Some of the OP's statements bother me because they exude a sense of not knowing what he could be getting himself into, but it doesn't matter now. I hope he made the summit, and I hope more than that that he stayed safe.

goldenhopper wrote:Anyone else getting a heavy Mel Torino vibe?

That was my first thought when reading the OP, but I'm pretty sure now he's for real.

For those of you who don't know the infamous Mel Torino thread, here you go: http://www.summitpost.org/phpBB3/mount-everest-need-advice-t29516.html?hilit=need%20everest%20advice

Bob Sihler wrote:

OOG wrote:Honestly, with all the spray and drama this thread has produced, I wonder if a slight rephrasing of your question would have produced different results. I've seen a few threads with a nearly identical OP but with decent advice and none of the bullshit. Actually I can think of one major difference, you seem to have done at least some of your homework first, whereas most of the other posters want other people to do the research for them. You had a plan that you wanted to back up with some advice from people with first hand experience with the mountain and the response from some was to throw shit in your face.

In my opinion, the critics here have been remarkably restrained. There have been way, way worse threads like this one here in the past. I'm talking as a member, not a moderator.

Some of the OP's statements bother me because they exude a sense of not knowing what he could be getting himself into, but it doesn't matter now. I hope he made the summit, and I hope more than that that he stayed safe.

goldenhopper wrote:Anyone else getting a heavy Mel Torino vibe?

That was my first thought when reading the OP, but I'm pretty sure now he's for real.

For those of you who don't know the infamous Mel Torino thread, here you go: http://www.summitpost.org/phpBB3/mount-everest-need-advice-t29516.html?hilit=need%20everest%20advice

Bob, my thoughts are not welcome in his thread per OOG. So no comment.

I wish we still had the "My dream is being unsatisfied..help!!" thread.

Bob Sihler wrote:

goldenhopper wrote:Anyone else getting a heavy Mel Torino vibe?

That was my first thought when reading the OP, but I'm pretty sure now he's for real.

For those of you who don't know the infamous Mel Torino thread, here you go: http://www.summitpost.org/phpBB3/mount-everest-need-advice-t29516.html?hilit=need%20everest%20advice

Perhaps the funniest and best executed thread of all SP time… Did Yang ever confess to being Mr. Torino?

A few words of wisdom and inspiration for the naysayers from Orange Counties own Mr. Mel Torino:

Mel_Torino wrote:I'll say no thanks to the sarcasm young friend. In the first week of May we climbed Mammoth Mountain as one of my short term goals before the big one. FYI Mammoth is over 12,000 feet.

But as to your query:"Be daring, be different, be impractical, be anything that will assert integrity of purpose and imaginative vision against the play-it-safers, the creatures of the commonplace, the slaves of the ordinary." Cecil Beaton

Why not aim high? Why not go for the gold and attempt a summit?
I recently told an employee of mine, one who attempted to nay-say my dream, that life demands a daring spirit, something I doubt he possesses. While I am not glorifying the fact I do drive an M5 and he something more economical.

I have received some very insightful comments thus far, I would appreciate your input as well. You as an individual DO have something constructive to offer the team.

Motivation comes from never saying never,
Mel

I think it's very difficult for someone who has never taken to a big mountain on foot to truly understand the scale of the endeavour. While it's certainly possible he did well, it could also have turned out to be a very rude awakening. Either way I sure hope he is well and did well.

telewoman wrote:Don't know if he summited or not but we were busy this weekend.
http://www.mtshastanews.com/newsnow/x17 ... -Mt-Shasta

azzi wrote:I have never climbed above 7000ft.
...and if need be I will keep moving until I am quite literally unable to do so.

azzi wrote:My biggest fears are: freezing (but from what I understand the weather should be great)...

azzi wrote:I looked at the weather forecast and it looks GOOD. Almost perfect.

azzi wrote:I'm not planning to be rescued. ...I'm continuing to travel up north afterwards and have already made appropriate plans

azzi wrote:I prepared the best I could, mentally and physically. I am trying to make my west-coast vacation truly memorable (no irony intended, a.k.a. me getting injured or dying being "memorable")

azzi wrote:I could probably recite you the snow-levels and temperatures by heart from the past two weeks as well.

azzi wrote:I am banking on the sun I posted a link to the weather forecast

"Relaying on weather forecasts, climbers have got in troubles or even paid with their lives. The top of Mt Shasta (above Red Banks) is quite large and if you get caught around the summit by clouds or whiteout you may not be able to find the proper way back, no visibility, no footprints. But even with a perfect visibility sometimes people get confused and take the wrong way down." (clmbr)

azzi wrote:Well, I am somewhat of a worrier, so I figured any extra tips and tricks wouldn't hurt, and I certainly received some valuable information via this thread and private message. I truly want to increase my chances of success and I wanted to see what my blindspots were. Knowledge is power.

azzi wrote:...Will certainly post a trip report, sounds like folks will be interested

The Mel Torino thread was really funny and this one looks very much the same with two main differences: He is (was) going solo, not with his family; and this is, fortunately (or NOT), only Mt Shasta versus Everest.

Just spoke with him, he made it up and back without incident.