Besides, I doubt the pilots have to pay for it....

Sure they do....out of their own taxed paychecks. Seriously, the company, Dept of Forestry and Ag, and most importantly, the people, pay for the retardant......and the maintenance of the plane, the pilots, the maintenance crews, the fuel, the.....

Soooooooo........are we done yet?

And Kris, I'm talking about when they have days they aren't fighting fires and are practicing over designated field targets (they use water instead). Why would they use retardant on practice areas when there no reason to?

"I have known plenty of people in the military and various fire department / police agencies that have intentionally done some very immature things. They are prone to that behavior on occasion just like real people..."

Agreed. Extraordinary professions don't necessarily mean the folks are extraordinary people.

I'd also say that, in my experience and observations, damn near a majority of police officers have serious integrity issues. Can't speak with any authority on military and/or fire department people.

Done? I think not. Obviously people still want to talk about it.

Talk on then.

Merry Christmas all!

wingding wrote:From Royce Peak on 8/19/07:

Looking at the picture and how clean the sides of the spray are near the summit they must have been very very low, I say 100 feet from the peak.

Dave Daly wrote: ...Sure they do....out of their own taxed paychecks. Seriously, the company, Dept of Forestry and Ag, and most importantly, the people, pay for the retardant......and the maintenance of the plane, the pilots, the maintenance crews, the fuel, the.....

All the more reason to question the validity of it's use when buildings and people are not threatened.

Soooooooo........are we done yet?

Guess not

And Kris, I'm talking about when they have days they aren't fighting fires and are practicing over designated field targets (they use water instead). Why would they use retardant on practice areas when there no reason to?

Obviously this was not a practice run . They were flying over the Sierra Crest with a plane load of retard. The question in this specific instance is why did they dump it where they did? The question in a more general sense is why do they dump fire retardant chemicals in remote mountain areas and watershed areas at all?

And while we're at it: Merry Christmas to you too. And happy New Years. Seriously.

Cheers!

And you too Chief! I know you're lurkin' there somwhere...

Rincon for New Years.

IMHO, Kathy's photo appears convincing if not outright incriminating......

Happy and healthy holidays, y'all!

Actually, the effect is somewhat "Christo-esque" if you get my drift...

ksolem wrote:

...This stuff degrades with time (80% in 20 days?), and disperses...

The stuff at the Rincon was dumped in Early June and has not degraded noticeably.

Wingding seemed most concerned about water quality issues.

As stated in my note (an edit, but I think it was done long before your post): the various surfactants, ammonium and phosphorous compounds, and organics degrade... BUT the iron oxide dye does not. The iron oxide is not a concern for water quality, but leaves the noticeable stain. The iron oxide is likely hematite, the thermodynamically stable form on the earth's surface, and the only way we'll lose it is to have it wash off mechanically.

If you have ever painted with or handled hematite (e.g. old barn paint, sheep dip, brick and stucco paint), you know it has a tendency not to go away, even after repeated washes.

Feather Peak is now "Red Feather Peak". If the stain were totally natural, people would probably think it was pretty!

The pilots themselves aren't likely to contact the wilderness agency directly. That's the responsibilty of the company management, my man

As DD stated, it's not the pilots responsibility to report their actions to the USFS. The Company has a USFS rep that may have dropped the ball.

Brown said he wasn't informed about the drop until a month after it occurred.

The pilots didn't even report it to the management:

The incident went unreported until wilderness rangers from the Inyo National Forest began fielding questions from hikers and climbers about the large, red stain across an otherwise white granite mountaintop.

Sitting back and enjoying some popcorn

Fire em all! They are malicious bastards, the entire lot. No more Air Tankers period. When the wildland, brush and forest fires start, I say let em burn everything in their paths, including all those million dollar houses, everything.

Bottom line, you all will get over it! You do not have choice.

I agree with everybody. I'm against everything bad, and for everything good.

ksolem wrote: And while we're at it: Merry Christmas to you too. And happy New Years. Seriously.

Cheers!

And you too Chief! I know you're lurkin' there somwhere...

Rincon for New Years.

Same to you Kris! You have fun at Rincon. I will be working both days on the "Hill". Got races to do.

The stain on Feather will match the one on Clyde Minaret...

edit: typo

Finally, proof that Clyde was really a red head...

ksolem wrote:Finally, proof that Clyde was really a red head...

More like Fire Crotch!