Actually if you have the time and a little extra cash I would try and take a wilderness medicine/emergency course. I took a Wilderness First Responder course way back in the mid 90's and the fundamentals have always stayed with me.

My instructor was the chief doc for Modesto ER which got the medivac flights from Yosemite, he was also a climber and an expedition physician. He tried to pass on a little of the "wisdom" that can only be gained by experience. His lectures were engaging and very informative. One of his guest speakers was a woman who had been first on the scene at the top of Half Dome after a lightning strike resulted in multiple fatalities/serious injuries. At the time of this incident, she was a recent graduate of his course. It was a lecture I will never forget.

The only reason I bring this up is that you just might stumble on an excellent course and you'll learn a lot. Of course there is a big difference from learning and actually doing, but a little knowledge certainly stacks up a little more going for you when you need it most.

Being way out in the backcountry certainly makes things more dire, but a little training and knowledge just might let one keep their head long enough to come up with the knowledge and creativity needed to help others or oneself.

So yeah, if you can, why not take a course? At the very least if you can get your hands on a copy the National Ski Patrol's "Outdoor Emergency Care". It's written specifically for outdoor/wilderness settings. My copy is the 2nd edition from the early/mid 90's, I believe they still put this out.

redneck wrote:

alleyehave wrote:I'm not dogging on the programs, but to assume you can adequately treat these issues in the backcountry is misleading and an unsafe attitude.

Ah, then I guess I'll save my time and dollars and forget about it.

Why stop there? You could go to Tijuana, pay some dough, and get a 5 day class on brain surgery too, then you'd be set.

ucla center for prehospital care

alleyehave wrote:

redneck wrote:

alleyehave wrote:I'm not dogging on the programs, but to assume you can adequately treat these issues in the backcountry is misleading and an unsafe attitude.

Ah, then I guess I'll save my time and dollars and forget about it.

Why stop there? You could go to Tijuana, pay some dough, and get a 5 day class on brain surgery too, then you'd be set.

Brain surgery after a 5 day class is a no-no, but it would be nice if the person I was hiking with could recognize that I was heading from mild heat exhaustion, to something more serious, and what to do about it.

We used to joke that getting your EMT taught you just enough to know that you don't know squat. The class I took never tried to lead anyone towards thinking that they could adequately handle anything that was thrown at them. It was far from that. If anything a good class will stress prevention over treatment and the decision making skills used in order to help avoid troubles. Then again, sometimes bad stuff just happens.

Yes, knowing the basics will cover it most the time and the #1 credo is "Do no further harm". Would I try and pull my partner's badly abscessed tooth when we can both basically walk out to the trailhead? Hell no! But what if I was miles from help and someone was severely hypothermic with death the result of non-treatment? Would I treat even though the risk of killing them from cardiac arrest due to rewarming shock was a possibility? Of course I would. With some knowledge & training though I could take steps to minimize the dangers of treatment and hopefully avoid sending them into cardiac arrest. Without that knowledge the victim is dead either way.

The above example is pretty extreme and these life or death dramas will not happen to most of us thankfully. So yes, in that sense I agree that the basics will cover it and avoid doing more damage. But I still think that classes and training are worth it for those with the time and resources. You point out that a 15 minute seminar on reducing fractures and dislocation does not mean you've got it "dialed in". True. I think most people with common sense would realize that a class doesn't make them an expert.

The thing is though, that someday you might not have a choice. Hopefully you won't screw it up, but at least with some training you've got a start. It's all about recognizing when your back is against the wall and what you need to do about it, as opposed to harming or killing someone, when the basics would have sufficed. Besides, those classes are interesting as hell.

hellroaring wrote:

alleyehave wrote:

redneck wrote:

alleyehave wrote:I'm not dogging on the programs, but to assume you can adequately treat these issues in the backcountry is misleading and an unsafe attitude.

Ah, then I guess I'll save my time and dollars and forget about it.

Why stop there? You could go to Tijuana, pay some dough, and get a 5 day class on brain surgery too, then you'd be set.

Brain surgery after a 5 day class is a no-no, but it would be nice if the person I was hiking with could recognize that I was heading from mild heat exhaustion, to something more serious, and what to do about it.

We used to joke that getting your EMT taught you just enough to know that you don't know squat. The class I took never tried to lead anyone towards thinking that they could adequately handle anything that was thrown at them. It was far from that. If anything a good class will stress prevention over treatment and the decision making skills used in order to help avoid troubles. Then again, sometimes bad stuff just happens.

Yes, knowing the basics will cover it most the time and the #1 credo is "Do no further harm". Would I try and pull my partner's badly abscessed tooth when we can both basically walk out to the trailhead? Hell no! But what if I was miles from help and someone was severely hypothermic with death the result of non-treatment? Would I treat even though the risk of killing them from cardiac arrest due to rewarming shock was a possibility? Of course I would. With some knowledge & training though I could take steps to minimize the dangers of treatment and hopefully avoid sending them into cardiac arrest. Without that knowledge the victim is dead either way.

The above example is pretty extreme and these life or death dramas will not happen to most of us thankfully. So yes, in that sense I agree that the basics will cover it and avoid doing more damage. But I still think that classes and training are worth it for those with the time and resources. You point out that a 15 minute seminar on reducing fractures and dislocation does not mean you've got it "dialed in". True. I think most people with common sense would realize that a class doesn't make them an expert.

The thing is though, that someday you might not have a choice. Hopefully you won't screw it up, but at least with some training you've got a start. It's all about recognizing when your back is against the wall and what you need to do about it, as opposed to harming or killing someone, when the basics would have sufficed. Besides, those classes are interesting as hell.

I agree with everything you said. But you possess common sense, something that isn't all that common. That's where the problem lies. Oh, and I can't believe I read all of that.

Yep, I agree that a lot of people lack common sense. Probably why they get in trouble in the first place

I've done all the training at one point or another. WFA, WFR, W-EMT, street EMT- B and I.

I learned far more in the wilderness protocol classes.

Yes, a lot is common sense. And it's unlikely you'll face a grim backcountry situation. But I have, a few times. It's nice to know that you are acting appropriately. To know there's little you can do if that's the case. And if that's the case, there are generally other potential patients on scene, yourself included, that need attention and appropriate care.

Knowing how to assess neural or circulatory impairment from an angulated fracture or dislocation, and how to reduce such if that's the proper course of treatment, can save someone from a lifetime of disability.

Knowing when a patient can safely be ambulatory and save everyone from the added risks of helo evac is a good thing.

I once splinted up a fibula fracture that walked 2 miles to meet a mule for the long ride out. No helos, no need to call local sar. This was from the palisade glacier.

Several trips have been saved when I was able to clear patients with an MOI (mechanism of injury) for a c-spine problem. When someone takes a serious fall, and is a little bloodied and bruised, it's nice to be able to assess over the course of some hours and know if they are just a bit dinged up, or if there are serious issues there.

But that's just trauma. Knowing something about environmental medicine goes a long way on the prevention side. Heat and cold related injuries can nearly always be recognized in the early stages when treatment is fairly simple and effective.

It's good stuff. I spend a lot of time in areas where rescue other than self rescue is not a possibility. We should all treat all our backcountry activities as if this were the case, and be self-reliant and prepared.