woodsxc wrote:

billisfree wrote:1993, 129 summitted and eight died (a ratio of 16:1); in 1996, 98 summitted and 15 died (a ratio of 6½:1)

That's a misleading statistic... the correct value to use is the number of deaths divided by the number who SERIOSLY ATTEMPTED the summit.

If one used the number that actually summited, one is getting a skewed figure.

Imagine... 200 people attempt, one makes it and one dies. That's a 50% fatality rate.

The correct value in this case should be odds of making it (0.5%)

and the odds of dying (0.5%)

Not at all.

We're not looking at percent of people who died, but rather the ratio of successful summit bids to deaths. To get the death rate of climbers on Everest, your method would be correct, but that's not what Patrick was talking about. He's comparing the number of people who died to the number that reach the highest point on earth.

Actually, this is the only type of fact I could find. There are no facts (I think) on the amount of attempts vs. deaths. Sorry about that.

patb

Dingus Milktoast wrote:And I would be pleased if someone would address Marshall's observation that there are 13 year old porters on Everest and no one is crying over them. Will those young porters all learn this valuable lesson? WHat about their filthy rich clients?

DMT

You can compare those young porters to this young climbing, but its still a little different. In the U.S. where would you see a 13 year old working like that? We have Child Labor laws which many countries don't have. Also many other countries don't have as many safety precautions as the U.S. does. If the U.S. had big Mountains, I don't think you would ever see 13 year old porter. Those porters are just making money to survive, this American boy is just trying to set a word record. There's a big difference, and even though I disagree with both situations, I can be a little more understanding towards the young porters for their situation. At least they are out and about and not in a sweat shop. I doubt those young porters go above base camp too. Just trying to throw a different perspective on it.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/02/05/bi ... mmits-usc/

then

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,554340,00.html

seems like 13 sure is the lucky number these days!

woodsxc wrote:I think it's a load of bull that the kid won't miss anything in 8 weeks of school. If we were talking about pulling a 3rd grader, that's one thing, but around 7th or 8th grade, you start learning useful stuff again.

It's been quite a while, but that's what my memory tells me. I do remember for sure that when I was 11 and 12, I was in 7th grade learning algebra, and when I was 12 and 13, I was in 8th grade learning trigonometry. (My birthday is part-way through the school year.)

Those were just the math classes, of course.

Let's change gears slightly here.

For all who disapprove the 13-year old climbing Everest, do you not hold the sponsors partially liable for funding the trip? I believe it to be a valid point, especially if someone decides to press charges for whatever reason


Everest Premiere Sponsors

BUFF
Network Innovations
nuun
OMEGA XL
POLARTEC
Smith Optics
SOLE
Team Duke (John Wayne Cancer Foundation)
Glycemic Research Institute
Partners

Adventure Medical Kits
Camelbak
Dr. Calvin Pramann
edelrid
Elemental Herbs
Energizer Batteries
ESRI
FIVE TEN
FRS
HighGear
Hilleberg The Tentmaker
Jet Boil
Kahtoola
Kayland
LEKI
Lowepro
Mary Kay
Mountain Fitness Center
Off Roving
Outdoor Research (OR)
Packit Gourmet
Petzl
Raw Revolution
Salt Stick
Sky High Training
Synergy Worldwide
Trackme360.com
Vasque

Mary Kay?

Again to change things up- Robgendreau started this thread and he's been MIA since his first post. He started the debate, encited us all and fled the scene. If anyone spots him, tackle him and force him to engage in the fight!

I did spot a post or two from Rob.

some here feel an impressive resume is needed to voice an opinion, as stated by some buffoon earlier in this thread, so I'll enhance my resume and make that climb.

What I said that you’re climbing goals were extremely unimpressive for someone who was acting “all bad” by calling people a-holes and idiots (and now buffoon) at the same time that you were bragging about your goals. It had nothing to do with being able to voice an opinion. It had to do with name calling and bragging (ego); not about being restricted from voicing opinions. Of course, feel free to misquote me all you want.

Scott wrote:

some here feel an impressive resume is needed to voice an opinion, as stated by some buffoon earlier in this thread, so I'll enhance my resume and make that climb.

What I said that you’re climbing goals were extremely unimpressive for someone who was acting “all bad” by calling people a-holes and idiots (and now buffoon) at the same time that you were bragging about your goals. It had nothing to do with being able to voice an opinion. It had to do with name calling and bragging (ego); not about being restricted from voicing opinions. Of course, feel free to misquote me all you want.

Scott go back and read what you wrote, I'm a "noob" so not quite figuring this out. So not too sure how I can go back and take all your quotes and post them in one response. But here you go:

The A-hole word I used towards you was due to you questioning my resume.

You called me arrogant considering "my climbing resume"

You questioned my goals of my 100 peaks of all "walk-up". Scott- you don't know the
peaks I've chosen and being that 5 are 14ers they all can't be walk up. Many have class 3 routes, as do many of the 13ers.

You also challenged me to compare what you kids hiked over the next several months as opposed to what I will do- That's very mature- and what difference does it make what they do and I do? You took something off my profile and added to a thread in which I made no mention of it.

So in the end, based on your RANTS of my climbibg resume and my goals, it very much comes across as though I need a better resume to voice my opnion. You may not agree with my point of view and I don't care. You may not like some of the words "idiots" or "buffoons" but I don't care. For the past several days this thread has had many, many posts and all have been polite, so welcome back. You have tried to take this to the toilet but I won't go there with you.

And I wasn't acting bad as you put it- because I haven't hiked anything yet and I don't have that personality in the second place. And for the "buffoon comment", I didn't single you out, I referred to someone who questioned my resume as a requirement to voicing an opnion. Don't like it, I don't care

Cheers and again welcome back! Let's keep it civil, shall we.

The A-hole word I used towards you was due to you questioning my resume

Wasn't me. I think you are confusing my quotes with some else’s. I only butted into the thread after the name calling started (idoits, a-holes). That was the only reason I butted in at all. In fact, I even edited the post (which really wasn't that bad in the first place) the same day and only made one other post in this entire thread.

You called me arrogant considering "my climbing resume"

Yes, because you were name calling and then (what seemed to be) bragging on the same post. I also deleted the post shortly after and posted this response:

It gets tiring because it happens so often. Maybe I just get tired of hearing such stuff messing up an interesting thread/debate. I've done the same thing too, so I guess I shouldn't be pointing any fingers. No harm done; I just didn't like the way the opinion was protrayed.

If you want to see extreme cases of what I'm refering to, look at the comments of any newspaper article that is printed after a climber is injured or dies.

You also challenged me to compare what you kids hiked over the next several months as opposed to what I will do

It was meant to be sarcastic and to point out the un-virtues of bragging/name calling rather than a serious challenge. At least a few others thought that it was funny.

You questioned my goals of my 100 peaks of all "walk-up". Scott- you don't know the peaks I've chosen and being that 5 are 14ers they all can't be walk up. Many have class 3 routes, as do many of the 13ers.

If that is your goal, then go for it. I wouldn't expect others to be impressed with it, but it's better to climb for your own goals anyway. It's good to share goals and experiences, but not for the sole purpose of bragging rights. People like sharing goals, information, trip reports and the like. Unless your name is Steve House of something, there's always someone out there better. Of course, no matter yours or anyone else's climbing level, it sure beats being couch potato, so in that respect, the newest beginner in climbing or even hiking is far better than the expert with the TV remote.

You took something off my profile and added to a thread in which I made no mention of it.

If it weren’t for the a-hole inserted in there, I wouldn’t have said anything at all (in fact not long after making the post, I thought I shouldn’t have said anything at all which is why it was edited not that long after it was posted). I guess your comment really wasn’t the big deal I made it out to be.

You may not agree with my point of view and I don't care.

Actually, I agreed with your point of view (much of it at least). It was the name calling (in what I saw to be an arrogant manner) I didn't like. Do you realize that because people swear on SP, it is often blocked from access on public computers? I'm serious and not joking.

The only reason that I brought it up at all again was because I was being misquoted (not because I was disagreeing with an opinion). If you referring to someone else then I apologize.

Other than that though, most of this thread is useless drivel. I’m sure you can agree with that.

dynamokiev98 wrote:neopheat: "Bafoons, idiots, assholes"...did they teach you these in your Church during "Easter" break? In my church they don't teach these : (

I would also like to know who is the "bafoon" you are reffering to and why?

Yes it was in church......the church of Corona. And we won't rehash all that. Scott made his points and I made mine and all is good. Are you hiking Shasta soon? Saw it on another thread. Is there a class 3 route up Shasta, I think I saw there was. Maybe in 2011 for me. cheers, Troy

This thread sure has been a weird one. Perhaps an exciting one as well. All is well that ends well I guess.

My final post and wrap up:

Anyway, since I take my own kids up mountains, I can sympathize with the parents of the 13 year old, but Everest is too far over the line for me to consider it safe for a kid.

If the group is experienced (and the parents have climbed within 1000 feet of Nuptse’s summit, so they are probably more experienced than 95% of the climbers on Everest) then perhaps the chances of dying aren’t so great. But…the body can only permanently acclimatize to 18-20K and above that the body actually (literally) eats itself. Studies (and they are very limited) indicate that some permanent brain damage (even if minor) occurs. Since the kid is only 13 and even if he returned from Everest safe, then I’d worry about the effects it may have had on the brain.

My seven year old wants to climb Everest, but there’s no way I would let him (unless he was old enough to make his own decisions). I guess at this time, I won’t even let myself climb Everest. I was invited to join a group climbing Everest for $10K (cheap by Everest standards), but I promptly turned it down because I felt that I didn’t want to risk it since I thought the risk of leaving a young kid fatherless would be too great. After the kids are older and more self sufficient, maybe I would be willing to do such things.

I have no idea when this thread became a pissing match between resumes.
Can you guys who are doing this just quit picking on neophite?

Obviously people have different backgrounds, opinions, emotions, motivations, etc. No use in talking down to other folks because of their resume. We all have some reason we react to things the way we do. If we're just civil to each other and allow some other view points to come out without calling each other names then we can all relax and hangout.

"Can't we all just get along"

cbcbd wrote:I have no idea when this thread became a pissing match between resumes.
Can you guys who are doing this just quit picking on neophite?

Obviously people have different backgrounds, opinions, emotions, motivations, etc. No use in talking down to other folks because of their resume. We all have some reason we react to things the way we do. If we're just civil to each other and allow some other view points to come out without calling each other names then we can all relax and hangout.

"Can't we all just get along"

Thanks cb, it's all good. I went back and read all the posts, some of this I brought on myself and some, well I won't go there. I took a few jabs (swollen lip), I took one to the ribs, (might be broken) and I took one big upper cut to my jaw....................and I'm still standing. My opinion hasn't changed on the subject and all is well. Beers on me!