by whiteknuckles » Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:04 am
by brokesomeribs » Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:59 am
by Dow Williams » Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:45 pm
brokesomeribs wrote:Waterfall ice is generally "shorter" in that it's often cragging. Even at Ouray, the tallest climb is what... 100' tall?
by mconnell » Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:38 pm
brokesomeribs wrote:Waterfall ice is generally "shorter" in that it's often cragging. Even at Ouray, the tallest climb is what... 100' tall?
by Dow Williams » Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:53 pm
mconnell wrote:brokesomeribs wrote:Waterfall ice is generally "shorter" in that it's often cragging. Even at Ouray, the tallest climb is what... 100' tall?
The ice park is basically gym climbing. Leave the park and there are plenty of much taller waterfall climbs in the Ouray area. The tallest climb I can think of in Ouray is 1200'.
by wallspeck » Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:11 am
by Dow Williams » Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:43 am
by whiteknuckles » Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:50 pm
by whiteknuckles » Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:05 pm
by mconnell » Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:00 pm
Dow Williams wrote: the ice park was an afterthought to bring the International comps to town.
by Damien Gildea » Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:14 pm
whiteknuckles wrote: ... does waterfall ice climbing teach you some, if not all, of the skills that you need for steep alpine ice routes?
by Dow Williams » Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:53 pm
Damien Gildea wrote:whiteknuckles wrote: ... does waterfall ice climbing teach you some, if not all, of the skills that you need for steep alpine ice routes?
Yes, some, but not all. On WI routes most, maybe all, your anchors and pro will be pure ice, either ice screw or Abalokov ice-thread. On alpine routes you may have rock placements (nuts, cams, pitons etc), snow (pickets, deadmen) as well as ice. Of course Abalakovs are only good in very hard ice, like water ice or glacial ice, so may not be used on a lot of alpine routes.
As for the actual climbing, if you can comfortably climb decent WI routes, say, WI3 and above, then the non-rock sections of most alpine climbs will feel relatively easy - technically - in comparision. Your tools and feet go in further, so you feel more secure, the angle is usually less, so you feel less like you can just drop off. 60 deg is very steep for a big traditional alpine route (as an average angle, some steps may be much more) but obviously most WI routes are of more sustained steepness than this. But having experience leading plenty of WI3-4+ routes means that you won't get spooked on the easier-angled sections of steeper alpine routes, so you can move faster, maybe unroped or moving together placing pro. Pitching is too slow.
But most big alpine climbs are about more than the technical qualities. You need to be fast and safe over moderate, maybe loose, ground - not the steepest tech ground. So this means good crampon technique on exposed icy slopes 30-45 deg, good rope management, use of natural pro like running the rope between gendarmes, good balance along and down ridges etc, and you need a good degree of physical fitness, especially legs and lungs, to keep moving without stopping. Much more than for just waterfall ice routes.
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by CClaude » Mon Jul 19, 2010 4:03 pm
Dow Williams wrote:brokesomeribs wrote:Waterfall ice is generally "shorter" in that it's often cragging. Even at Ouray, the tallest climb is what... 100' tall?
If you are a tourist top rope climber, I suppose you are right...otherwise, Ouray (and real waterfall ice climbing) deserves a bit more respect from snow sloggers.
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