Desert Water Agency (DWA) property

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Ze

 
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Re: Desert Water Agency (DWA) property

by Ze » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:48 pm

attached a gpx file in my tr from last year using the legal route

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Re: Desert Water Agency (DWA) property

by drpw » Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:04 am

When and how did the DWA acquire the land? Their website says they didn't enter the retail water market until 1968 when the San Jac Wilderness was created in 1964. I understand and respect private property, but I don't think it's acceptable for a company to own land inside a designated wilderness area and completely forbid access.

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Re: Desert Water Agency (DWA) property

by The Chief » Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:10 am

drpw wrote:When and how did the DWA acquire the land? Their website says they didn't enter the retail water market until 1968 when the San Jac Wilderness was created in 1964. I understand and respect private property, but I don't think it's acceptable for a company to own land inside a designated wilderness area and completely forbid access.


It has been privately owned since before the 1900's and then sold to the DWA in the late 50's.

Thus it has been in private hands long before SJW was ever designated.

Moot point.


PS: There are many privately owned sections of land nestled within different designated Wilderness Fed Lands throughout the United States. This is one of many.

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Re: Desert Water Agency (DWA) property

by WML » Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:50 am

Access on private lands is exactly that - the local land manager giving you the permission, under the premise you will behave maturely and minimize impact, to use their land. By doing this they are putting their asses on the line relative to liability.

If the DWA does not want you to use their land, it is their right to restrict you from using it. Were it on public land, then there is a completely different set of rules and access issues to contend with there. Fortunately, on private land the answers about access are very straightforward and rarely change. Unfortunately, not following the Land Manager's directives about not accessing their terrain constitutes trespassing, and is counter-intuitive toward gaining legal and proper access to the area generally.

Look at the rules of climbing at the Owens River Gorge, for example. If people did not obey those rules, the LM's would restrict access. Is it right? Is it wrong? Who cares, it is private property and those who own it, well, own the land.

Access is everyone's battle, from regulation to complete restriction of access in areas, and following LM's instructions, while allowing respected organizations such as the Access Fund, or highly motivated and connected individuals like Rick (case in point the whole Williamson dilemma which he greatly assisted in) handle the role of advocate. Otherwise, follow the rules or risk ruining any potential progress for everybody.

Again, how these organizations (DWA near SJW or LADWP in the Owens Valley) acquired their land is not relevant at this point. They own it, and we have to deal with their rules and regs. I do not have firsthand experience with the DWA, but with LADWP and Southern California Edison, both of these groups have done a great job allowing and cooperating with the climbers using their land.

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Re: Desert Water Agency (DWA) property

by willytinawin » Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:52 pm

Any way you slice it, it's quite a gig they have going on there. They purchase a parcel where the forks of the watershed convene, then sell all the "free" water to their customers. My question is this: who owns all that snow that lies above their property, the stuff that melts and fills their water tanks? do the owners of said snow need money? Hmmm, reminds me of LA buying all the rights to the Owens Valley water.

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Re: Desert Water Agency (DWA) property

by Ze » Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:04 am

I'm not sure section 33 is in the SJ wilderness...it seems to lie just outside the border

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Re: Desert Water Agency (DWA) property

by willytinawin » Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:03 pm

Ze wrote:I'm not sure section 33 is in the SJ wilderness...it seems to lie just outside the border

Secc 33 is outside the wilderness. However, just about all of their water comes from the wilderness area. land that they do not own.

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Re: Desert Water Agency (DWA) property

by The Chief » Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:55 pm

willytinawin wrote: Secc 33 is outside the wilderness. However, just about all of their water comes from the wilderness area. land that they do not own.

And so does ALL the water that you and millions of other CAL humans drink.

Moot point!

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Re: Desert Water Agency (DWA) property

by willytinawin » Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:12 am

The Chief wrote:
willytinawin wrote: Secc 33 is outside the wilderness. However, just about all of their water comes from the wilderness area. land that they do not own.

And so does ALL the water that you and millions of other CAL humans drink.

Moot point!

Well, you are entitled to your opinion, and me, mine. It's one thing to get free water and sell it for a profit. It's quite another to be an asshole and tell people who want to climb the nicest face in Southern California basically "no". The few people who go up there each year aren't hurting anything. Perhaps they own sec 33, but they act like they own the entire north face.

Go ahead, shout out a reply :)

BTW, my water does not come from the Owens Valley, it's a local source.

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Re: Desert Water Agency (DWA) property

by MoapaPk » Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:38 am

I'm guessing that the water I use has probably been around the globe many times. Heck, a few molecules were probably consumed by Aristotle. The clouds often form miles away before they dump on the watersheds in the Colorado Plateau.

But these philosophical issues don't seem to be of concern for the folks who have written the Colorado Water Compact. We in Nevada get some, even though most of the rain fell in Utah and Colorado (the state). Hey, even Mexico SHOULD get some.

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Re: Desert Water Agency (DWA) property

by willytinawin » Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:47 am

MoapaPk wrote:I'm guessing that the water I use has probably been around the globe many times. Heck, a few molecules were probably consumed by Aristotle. The clouds often form miles away before they dump on the watersheds in the Colorado Plateau.

But these philosophical issues don't seem to be of concern for the folks who have written the Colorado Water Compact. We in Nevada get some, even though most of the rain fell in Utah and Colorado (the state). Hey, even Mexico SHOULD get some.

At least you are cool about it and don't go storming around ordering everyone within 5 miles of your property to go to jail. :wink:

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Re: Desert Water Agency (DWA) property

by Bob Burd » Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:54 am

willytinawin wrote:It's one thing to get free water and sell it for a profit.


DWA is a public agency. I don't think their gig is a for-profit scam.

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Re: Desert Water Agency (DWA) property

by MoapaPk » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:14 am

willytinawin wrote:At least you are cool about it and don't go storming around ordering everyone within 5 miles of your property to go to jail. :wink:


I have asked people to leave, when they bring their dogs on my yard to piss and crap. Who knows, maybe a few molecules of that dog crap were once in me. But it's still crap.

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Re: Desert Water Agency (DWA) property

by willytinawin » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:15 am

Bob Burd wrote:
willytinawin wrote:It's one thing to get free water and sell it for a profit.


DWA is a public agency. I don't think their gig is a for-profit scam.

Do you feel that they are over-stepping by harassing people outside section 33? Do you feel that because they "own" sec. 33 that they can forbid people from parking or hiking in the neighboring sections?

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Re: Desert Water Agency (DWA) property

by willytinawin » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:26 am

From their website:
Local Supply Facts
About 95 percent of DWA water is pumped from deep wells located throughout the service area. The other 5 percent is mountain stream water from Snow Creek, Falls Creek and Chino Creek.



DWA pumps using 25 active wells into the water system with six pressure zones—which includes about 22,000 active services throughout 369 miles of pipeline and serves about 71,000 people. The agency utilizes 28 reservoirs with the capacity to store 59 million gallons.



Annual production for DWA is about 43,000 acre feet (more than 14 billion gallons) annually.



The agency replenishes the groundwater with water from the State Water Project. Because there is no direct pipeline from the SWP to Palm Springs, the agency exchanges water with Metropolitan Water District. Replenishment water comes from the Colorado River Aqueduct. DWA uses the water from two connections to fill recharge basins, located at Whitewater and Mission Creek.



From 1973 to 2008, DWA and CVWD have replenished the groundwater basins with more than 2.1 million acre feet of water at Whitewater River and Mission Creek subbasins.



The agency also gets water from mountain streams including Chino Creek, Snow Creek and Falls Creek.



DWA gets about 3 million gallons a day from stream supply and about 78 million gallons per day in well capacity.



DWA works hard to ensure the purity of this water by carefully monitoring and controlling the quality of water that we supply to our customers.



Well-trained DWA employees provide information, service hook ups and emergency assistance in the case of accidents or other problems affecting service to our customers.
============================================================================================
It's pretty much what I thought, the main source of their water supply IS the aquifier. That means that those houses at the end of Snow Creek Road are haveing a far greater impact on their water supply, and that their response to hikers is greatly exaggerated, ie "over the top". Furthermore, they DO utilize Chino Creek, which means that every time someone parks at the Tram lot and takes a long piss over the edge before going up to the valley station, well, thier piss is going into the DWA water supply. Why no uproar about the Tram parking lot and all their trash, piss, etc.?

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