twoshuzz wrote:Leave it alone. If people wish to climb, they'll find a means to grab some gear just as you have.

Guyzo lives !!!

I think this is pretty simplistic approach. It is easy to make such calls when coming from a country where disposable income is commonplace, and poverty means having just XBOX and no PS3. (Excuse my exaggeration here, just to make a point).

Here's my two cents:

I have some extended family in Bulgaria (hope to visit the country some day soon!) and I understand what OP means when he says they do not have the money.

None the less, I think even in this situation you should respect the ethics of the sport. If you know the people who have done the first ascents, I would advise you to have a chat with them - how would they personally feel about you bolting their route. I would assume you will find that at least some of them agree with your reasoning. Then select a few routes per grade, if possible, and bolt those.

In the long term, once a route is bolted, you can't really go back on that. So be careful, try not to bolt too many routes.

Its nice your thinking of others and trying to promote the sport, but I would leave the rock as it is.

Climbing is not a cheap hobby and people know that. There's no reason why you should spend your time and money putting bolts up for climbers who can't afford trad gear. If you want to help the climbing community, make a guide book of the new routes and area. This will motivate local climbers to repeat the routes and re think their investment in the sport.

Like Hotoven said, it's nice you're thinking of others and trying to promote the sport. I'd add that one of the best ways to promote the sport is to preserve all the beautiful trad lines you've FA'd. None of the locals have trad gear now, but what about 10 years from now? 20 years from now? 50 years from now? The locals of the future will be glad you left the routes in their pristine shape.

sjarelkwint wrote:

rankinesoccer wrote:Could you put in fixed pro like stoppers and hexes and have them not be taken? That was people could climb it without damaging rock by bolting.

Thats the same as bolting

I was just thinking that there would not be permanent holes drilled into the rock with this approach. I'd go for bolting it, but it's up to you in the end.

I'm always curious about the phrase "harm the rock" as applied to bolts. Often climbers break off handholds by mistake (sometimes a fatal mistake); I have personally ridden down on a 300 lb piece that broke off its "secure" position on the other side of a crack. Protection does pull free occasionally, and pulls some of the rock with it.

I'm NOT a bolting fan, but the lingo does seem to carry an unspoken emotional hyperbole. There are places that I visit often that are covered with brightly colored slings, perpetually; often the slings are tied to trees, and are not doing the tree bark any favors. I guess it's OK to harm a tree, but not a rock.

People were climbing before we had all this "expensive" climbing gear. Some of the earliest climbers were very inventive with both their gear selection and placements. This in the end made them very good climbers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg5LOLsQ ... re=related

Climb the route do not bring it down to your level!

There's one thing missing from this discussion: what do the LOCAL climbers think?

My feeling is that the rock is a long-term asset. I'm having a little trouble seeing how the cost of cams makes such a big difference - climbers will have to scrounge up rope, shoes, and 'biners even for a sport route.

Would it make a difference if you could find lines that could be done with (cheaper) passive gear?
Would it be possible to bring in climbers from elsewhere in Europe in a way that's guaranteed to susbsidize the price of gear for local climbers? (Tourists pay for access, locals get cheaper entry plus the tourist money goes to a fund... something like that.)

But it might be a mistake to assume that what Bulgarian climbers need most is cheaper gear. Maybe they;d be willing to borrow money for gear from an uncle, if only they had .... ??

There's climbing in Romania's Cheile Turzii - where there's also lots of bolts (and at least one via ferrata). Might be worth researching the history and results of bolting there - seems like an interesting population to compare in terms of culture and economics.

norco17 wrote:People were climbing before we had all this "expensive" climbing gear. Some of the earliest climbers were very inventive with both their gear selection and placements.

Truth. Some of the folks here have absolutely CRAZY gear for Sedona (a notoriously scary place to climb trad)... like home-welded metal contraptions, chunks of wood, etc.