Bob, I know full well what is going on behind the scenes regarding Matt, Chad and Josh's hard work via new changes. But what you consider an acceptable level of randomization and what I do are two different and contrasting opinions no doubt. I want the "buddy-buddy" quotient taken out completely and potentially see this site grow up and into something tangible and real for the outdoor rec public to digest. I have ignored the bs for way too long watching this site diminish in value....Matt knows where I am at. Time to make serious changes, not little ones...in my opinion.

I fully agree with Dow...the POD and POW should be eliminated. I have even expressed this to Matt. I would like to see three slots on the front page for complete random POTM pics.

Call down Dow.

What you propose wouldn't be any better. If you had completely random crap showing on the front page then that is exactly what it would be... crap.

And it wouldn't be a slate if climbing photos either. Those aren't a huge percentage of the random pile to choose from.

Sounds like you have also forgotten the original basis for my POTM criteria too. That isn't what it is right now, but we can see how it works and continue to make it better (maybe even moving back to the original suggestion).

Relax!

Chad, this "crap" you are talking about is subjective first of all...2nd, it is easy to set the bar at a level to eliminate truly inappropriate photos via membership at large policing...(two negative votes for example)....but otherwise you need to get this site unlocked and opened up in a big way....third....I will continue to voice these ideals...so if they don't happen, nobody can accuse me of giving up on something in which I voiced no input...and as far as relaxing goes....I live on the sharp end of the rope....this internet biz is not rocket science and by no means gets me excited....I know when I am asking for something complicated or unrealistic code wise and so far I haven't.

Dow crappy photos get zero votes, not two negative ones. No one bothers to open a crappy thumbnail and give it a poor vote.

Same with the current scoring system and the new system won't change that. The new system will help folks vote constructively on mountain pages but its not going to change on lot wrt how many 10s a picture gets.

And I think most of us can agree that some standard of quality for the front page would be good. It will have more variation, and we can continue to push to increase it, but totally random isn't so great. Those climbing pics will be just as buried as before if you go pure random.

mrchad9 wrote:Dow crappy photos get zero votes, not two negative ones. No one bothers to open a crappy thumbnail and give it a poor vote.

There's some truth in this exchange between Dow and Chad that's worth exploring. Quite a lot of GOOD photos look crappy in a thumbnail. Dow put up an example of a recent photo of his, and suggested it might not be getting the votes it deserves because of the general degeneracy and contemptableness of the SP membership. But the example Dow posted--which is a fine photo and really would look nice on the front page--is the kind of shot that loses a lot when it gets the automatic crop the system applies in turning it into a thumbnail. It might be worth considering a tweak to that automatic crop feature.

If we go the the pure random thing that Dow advocates, on the other hand, we will be walking around the Tatras a lot. The idea that random rotation will put more true climbing photos on the front page is fantasy (as is the idea that true climbing photos, and Dow's contributions in particular, never get front page exposure in the current system). People need to be careful what they wish for--it is voting and the human element, imperfect as it may be, that pulls this site back toward mountains and climbing in the long haul, and away from random outdoor stuff.

chugach mtn boy wrote:Quite a lot of GOOD photos look crappy in a thumbnail.

Agreed. Almost every vertical shot looks bad in the thumb format on the What's New page.

chugach mtn boy wrote:People need to be careful what they wish for--it is voting and the human element, imperfect as it may be, that pulls this site back toward mountains and climbing in the long haul, and away from random outdoor stuff.

^^^^^^^
That!

I am waiting to see what Matt, Chad and Josh have here...I am sure it is a huge improvement...that said, in response......same ole, same ole...you sit here amongst some dozen or so active members, admiring each others crap always sounding the alarm that crap photos and beta will surface when one promotes a more open and dynamic site...I for one, not only don't buy this bs, but know better...Google is incredibly successful for a reason....things that have a need, or use or valid interest...move to the top.....based on use, not some antiquated tit for tat voting or administrator homage system.....there are few real outdoor enthusiast left on this site...from what I can tell it is now mostly folks who sit in front of a computer all day and are mostly photogs.....

you have had your way, driving the site into the ground in the false name of maintaining quality...I call bullshit...randomize the site....allow click throughs, not votes, to determine any kind of exposure...just like Google....this is not about me...I receive my benefit from Google (99.99% of the folks who use my beta do not belong to SP)...SP has become nothing more than my prefered storage and format....this is about making the site grow and prosper...I would much rather see it reach out to new members than just remain a storage facility where a dozen or so members kiss each others ass.....you should thank me for calling you out...many of you need a dose of realism...a real kick in the butt in my opinion

When all this is settled, I will relax and be able to think about lesser issues, like the unsustainable economic state, universal health care, and terrorism.

MoapaPk wrote:When all this is settled, I will relax and be able to think about lesser issues, like the unsustainable economic state, universal health care, and terrorism.

Good one Moapa...I just went for a run, which means I listened it the latest Bill Maher show via podcast....covering all the latest tragedy out there, particulary having a girlfriend one has actually never met for 2yrs....Bill and I think alike, void of any political correctness......no need for anyone to take it personally......I am sure Matt's roll out with the help of others, Chad, Josh, etc....will be a huge improvement. Look forward to it.

I bet Dow really likes the new site... we gave him half of Gangolf's power points.

It is unfortunately not going to change anything with respect to the process of how new content is submitted.

I have discussed that with Matt though, and he advised me that he would like to make that a priority to work on next (instead of things like smilies and other stuff). Being able to move on to work that would make new submissions easier is one reason to stop the POTD and other such discussions where they are now.

Matt tells us he has time to work on it. I think what we need now are specific ideas from people on how to make additions easier. Matt has some thoughts, and honestly I have not had time to study them yet, but if anyone here has specific suggestions on what sort of changes, interfaces, etc would be better then let's hear them.

The Chief wrote:I could give a flying fk about the voting and all that ego fest shit.

That's hilarious.