Wow I just got a call from Ryan ..... Pyro as he is known on ST. (he got his name after his real campfire got out of control at the base of HD..... prompting a "smokejumping effort" by the NPS and a trip to the judge and a ban from YNP..... but I digress. )

The whole crew went to Echo Cliffs on Sunday, I missed out- was racing.

The NPS, Santa Monica National Park, Pulled the bolts and closed a few of the roots

For most of you who don't know about Echo, it's a nice crag located in the western end of the Santa Monicas. Echo was one of the first Sport Climbing places in SoCal.

Rap Bolting, Chipping, Gluing all went on- without a peep from the local trads because the place was deemed Total Choss by them...... this was way back in the early 90's.

After the initial roots were put up the place remained pretty static because IMHO the good lines, on the best stone, were done. Most of the climbs were pretty hard 5.10's and up with some steller 5.12's on the steep hard stuff.

The initial development caused some friction with the NPS, they were not used to having people around. The trail went through a sensitive plant zone and the NPS didn't like it one bit. We had meetings with them and worked out a good solution and rerouted the trail so it avoided the rare plants.

All was good, for about 17 years.

This all changed about 3 years ago when we noticed "new roots" showing up on any and all possible stone no matter how bad the stone was.

We figgured out that these new climbs were the work of a married couple..... "Gentle Ben and his wife" is what we named them.

I started going out on the weekdays and met up with Gentle Ben. We had some nice little chats, Ben informed me that ECHO didn't have enuf moderate climbs...... sub 5.8....and he was goin to DEVELOP some.

A few other climbers added to the mess. One Erik Wolf and his GF.... "Skippy", stole one of Ben's "lines" that Ben had cleaned of moss, vegetation and trees.

The new roots went in at a furious pace...... Mostly poor lines, with poor bolts, in the wrong place without Any aesthetic qualities at all were the norm. These new climbs required lots of scrubbing, the old ones didn't, of the Moss and Vegetation before the lines were done. Trees were cut down .... "to get em out of the way so we can climb" Ben told me.

Now I am a pretty Laissez Faire sort of guy so I never really pushed the issue with these "climbers".

Well the NPS moved in and pulled the bolts from these roots! Not all of them, but the climbs in the GROTTO are gone. The NPS used the first bolt on them to hang these signs.

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum ... d-for-Echo

This is the first time I have sided with the NPS in my life.

So this is what happens when we get so wrapped up in "New Root Fever" that we loose sight of the the Natural Beauty around us and just DESTROY IT.

All in the name of "CLIMBING"

So now climbers and dirtbikers and strip miners are all lumped in together, in the eyes of the NPS.

A sad day.

Guy Keesee

I couldn't get your link to work but this one does

After getting an email from Ben and with some new information coming to light, I've deleted my unconstructive comments. The facts of the situation are on the linked thread.

Guyzo wrote:A few other climbers added to the mess. One Erik Wolf and his GF.... "Skippy", stole one of Ben's "lines" that Ben had cleaned of moss, vegetation and trees.

The new roots went in at a furious pace...... Mostly poor lines, with poor bolts, in the wrong place without Any aesthetic qualities at all were the norm. These new climbs required lots of scrubbing, the old ones didn't, of the Moss and Vegetation before the lines were done. Trees were cut down .... "to get em out of the way so we can climb" Ben told me.

Holy shit, are they out of their minds? Going into a National Forest and cutting down trees without a permit? Who the hell do they think they are?

That is for sure a citable offense. Be interesting to find out what the penalty is.

It's a national recreation area, under the jurisdiction of NPS.

ksolem wrote:It's a national recreation area, under the jurisdiction of NPS.

Cutting down trees in NPS territory is even more absurd than cutting down trees in a NF. Why not just invite Disney to pave it and build some amusement shit.

ksolem wrote:It's a national recreation area, under the jurisdiction of NPS.

Sorry, I misread it. That's even worse!

Probably the devastation done to the plant life on the cliff is even more egregious. Whole communities of plants have been destroyed and the scar on the rock was almost certainly what drew the wrath of the park service. This has also been happening some at Malibu State Park and is likely to get shut down there as well.

Hopefully they don't erase all of the routes and close both parks to climbing!

A sensitive plant species grows on this rock face. Protect it by using climbing routes east of this area.

Someone should add on to that sign:

If you can't climb 5.10 sport (and up) routes you don't belong at this crag.

So many problems arise from climbers, regardless of their ability, deciding to bring the rock down to their level. It matters not if their ability is 5.12 or 5.7. Bad results are pretty much guaranteed either way.

Local climbers should thank the NPS Rangers for their measured response.

"I started going out on the weekdays and met up with Gentle Ben. We had some nice little chats, Ben informed me that ECHO didn't have enuf moderate climbs...... sub 5.8....and he was goin to DEVELOP some.....The new roots went in at a furious pace...... Mostly poor lines, with poor bolts, in the wrong place without Any aesthetic qualities at all were the norm. "

Gee, doesn't that sound oh so familiar. Got the exact same issue happening in the A-Hills by someone we all know all too well.

Here's the latest example:



Fortunately, I know the local BLM LEO very well and he is working on ceasing this behavior by the individual. He has also asked me to continue with the massive Anchor Rebolt gig and ensuring that all bolts & anchors are all camo'd. He is in the process of publishing a local brochure that will stipulate all new route requirements.

I differ with your analysis Kris. I see it as SELFISH EGO and nothing less.

Gary Schenk wrote:

The Chief wrote:I see it as SELFISH EGO and nothing less.

This situation is very disturbing, but knowing "Gentle Ben", it is with without a doubt NOT a selfish ego gig. Ben is a quality guy.

Maybe you do not know him as well as you think.

If he was a quality guy, why is he reducing the area down to his measure of necessity and destroying the local rare fauna in the process?

If that is the new definition of a "quality guy", I sure as hell would not want to see what shetbag of a guy would do to the area.

Most places around here, you need to go through the whole environmental impact statement process to create a new hiking trail or re-route an existing one. That seems a bit extreme, but I don't know why a bolted climbing route should be treated any differently from a hiking trail. That process starts with a local trail club that helps maintain the trails and also works with the authorities. Sounds to me like there needs to be a local group that will advocate for routes and will also limit them - in other words the routes that are bolted should be decided on by some sort of consensus, rather than just one climber's whim. Also sounds like some of the climbers involved need to learn a bit of respect for nature.

A lot of folks "informally" maintain trails by clipping brush. I know that isn't right in the current situation, but this is a strange area of morality, sort of like the slings vs bolts war in canyoneering. Fortunately our local BLM reps generally don't get out of the office, or they might be quite disturbed by the clipped brush on scrambles in Red Rock. The approaches to popular rock climbs are quite chewed up, mainly just from foot traffic and people breaking branches.

I wonder if Gentle Ben ever stopped to think "maybe there is a reason there are no moderate climbs on this rock."

I agree with what buz said - there needs to be a consensus when decided to build new routes - especially when it involves cutting down trees in a national park.

MoapaPk wrote:A lot of folks "informally" maintain trails by clipping brush.

You can get away with that on BLM or National Forest land, but I'd be surprised if it was tolerated on land administered by the NPS.

And in any case, maintaining existing routes is a whole nuther thing from engineering new ones.

redneck wrote:

MoapaPk wrote:A lot of folks "informally" maintain trails by clipping brush.

You can get away with that on BLM or National Forest land, but I'd be surprised if it was tolerated on land administered by the NPS.

And in any case, maintaining existing routes is a whole nuther thing from engineering new ones.

Red Rocks (NV) is quite a few steps up from plain BLM land -- it's a national conservation area. They won't allow general dispersed camping, and have a lot of access restrictions. Hiking/climbing groups, including classes, are limited to 12 or fewer unless one gets a special permit.

We have had RRCNCA BLM officials complain about clipped brush, threatening legal action if the perpetrators are caught.

NEPA rules are open to interpretation, but you might be surprised how many times what would seem (to you or me) to be routine maintenance ends up requiring a NEPA permit as a "substantial change."

Cutting trails illegally often seems like an improvement over the status quo. The best trail to Juniper Canyon was done on the sly, and has slowed the growth of more herdpaths and erosion by the rock climbers.