As I think more about it, frankly I'd want to call it C1. It does technically require placing gear, which I found to be a lot harder to place than just setting pro in a straightforward crack (that lasso is tricky!). Also, unless you get it just perfect, it really doesn't seem that secure. Finally, people then do ascend the rope via pre-tied knots or prussics rather than pulling for one move. So really, while it doesn't involve the placement of traditional gear, based on the general spirit/idea of the given rating, wouldn't you say the Thunderbolt summit block is C1 and not C0/A0? It's not really equivalent to swinging off a rappel or using a bolt ladder. Especially if reading the classification from here strictly?

Aid climbers - thoughts?

My understanding of A0 is preplaced, solid gear e.g. a bolt ladder, fixed pins, etc. Once you start placing gear then you get into A1/C1. Is lassoing a summit block and ascending the fixed line aid? You betcha. Is it preplaced? Not the way I see it. Therefore in my world I would call it C1.

The summit block is 5.8 lead in boots, no pro needed. Why would you want to call it anything else?

asmrz wrote:The summit block is 5.8 lead in boots, no pro needed. Why would you want to call it anything else?

nice jab

No jab here. It has been done cleanly for at least 30 years (my time frame) and who knows, maybe way longer. If you ever stand below that block again, remember that and try it free. It goes.

I think that if you can comfortably lead .10s with no problem on Tahquitz, Yosemite or JTree, then it is an easy 8 in boots. But for most people, the Summitblock of Tbolt is not going to go in boots with no pro. I only did TBolt once and I lassoed the summit and aided, so I am obviously nowhere near your league. But I did get to the top, alone, and on my first try, so I'm no slouch either.

Again, it has been rated 5.8 and done free for eternity. Today's new generation of rock climbers and alpinists should have little trouble with it, and certainely, should try it free first. If you have to aid it, so be it, but let's keep the rating where it is/was.
And regarding your comment about .10 climber, I'm, 62, have not led sustained 5.10 in years. But I was on Thunderbolt couple years ago (my 6th time) and the block goes at 5.8, even now.

How about it goes at 5.8X if we're looking to be a little more accurate here.

Or V0. Thing's a basic 3 or 4 move boulder problem, with exposure. If the summit block were on the ground would you rate it as an aid or lead climb? Its 10 feet tall!

I didn't lead it though, I TR'd it. Perhaps if I had led it, it would have been 5.13 R/X

PW's method sounds to me like what I refer to as A0 - pulling on gear (i.e. not free climbing) and not using ladders.

But Alois has a point - it has been a moderate free rating for some time.....

I'm not an authority on ratings by any means, but I've seen the summit block of T-bolt lead in hiking boots. I have also heard that it's common to climb the west side of the block with the security of a lasso'd rope. When I climbed it I had the benefit of being belayed by my friend who went first. We both did it in boots without hanging or pulling on the rope. I don't know if it's still here, but a couple of years ago someone posted a really nice video of it being done. Like the guy in the video, I went up on the north side of the summit block. From standing in the notch you have mantel up onto a thin, sloping ledge with your nose into the block. Once standing on the mantle, move right about 2 or 3 feet, the ledge gets narrower but you can eventually reach your hands up and get ahold of the top of the block. Then you have to pull yourself up and work your feet right until you can hook your right leg up and over the top. After both hands and your right foot are up you can pull up and roll the rest of your body up and on to the top. The same friend I climbed with took my brother up last summer. They took sticky rubber shoes and they said it was easier with climbing shoes.

It's 5.8 or AO...very simple.

C1 refers to an aid climb. If there's only one point of aid, it's A0...aka "French Free".

It's only 10 feet tall and 5.8 boot climb
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG9WOF7r_tQ

5.8?????


More like 5.5-5.6 in LS Trango GTX's. 7 times in the past 3 years alone. A0 or C1 are a joke...C'mon!!!!!

Okay Chief, you win, it's a 5.5 boulder problem. But I do think it's a tad bit longer than 10 feet if you fall.