Unclimbed peaks (identification / confirmation)

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Unclimbed peaks (identification / confirmation)

by Bruno » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:49 am

The purpose of this thread is to discuss possible unclimbed peaks, for which little information is available.

For example peaks not mentioned in the Himalayan Database, in Jurgalski's tables at 8000ers.com, in the Himalayan Index or in the litterature (or under other names).

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Re: Unclimbed peaks (identification / confirmation)

by Bruno » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:01 am

Unnamed Peak 6430m
Location: 27°51'34" 86°53'44"E
Altitude: 6430m (Schneider) / 6419m (Washburn)/ 6402m (Nepa)
Prominence: approx. 300m (parent Ama Dablam)
Other info: located 1.5km NE of Ombigaichen, can be found on the web as "Pema Dablam" or "Tsiringma" (6429m / 6238m)

Any information whether this peak is climbed?
Image
http://www.summitpost.org/unnamed-peak-6430m/748609

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Re: Unclimbed peaks (identification / confirmation)

by Damien Gildea » Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:03 pm

Bruno,

INFO has this as just 'Pk 6246' and no mention of an ascent. But it's hardly an independent peak, more like a point on the ridge running down to the Amphu Labcha, no? It does look nice from the east though, I think Nelson on here has a pic?

Tseringma is a name used for several peaks in the Khumbu/Rolwaling and has caused confusion before, with Gauri Sankar, Kang Nachugo etc. I have not seen this peak referred to as that before.

'Puma Dablam' was the name that the first ascentionists of Ombigaichen gave to that peak. Their ascent was not well known before Victor Saunders and Oliver Burr climbed it several years ago. The info is in the Himalayan Database now though.

In the Khumbu, there is not much unclimbed, as you probably know. Officially Khangri is unclimbed, it's the peak just west of Pumori. It's only just an independent peak, not much prominence, and has a nice big rock buttress on the south of it. The east side was attempted by Japanese a few years ago, from the glacier separating it from Pumori.

I think maybe some of the peaks/points between Lobuche West and Nirekha might be unclimbed, but they would have been pretty obvious targets for illegal ascents. They look to have good technical routes on the north side.

The peak south of Malanphulan is also climbed, though it is not well known. I think most of those in the Hunku/Hinku group east of Kangtega etc have been climbed. The HD even has Hongu Chuli as unclimbed, but that is on record climbed by the NZers in the 50s. They climbed a lot of peaks around there back then.

There might be some question over whether or not the highest point of Pigpherago Shar / Likhu Chuli was reached on its first ascent?

I recently went through some of the unclimbed 'peaks' in the Himalayan Index for the Hindu Kush and matched them with Google Earth. Most of them were not really mountains at all. The HI is quite poor for Afghanistan, understandably. There are also a number of errors for Indian areas.

Plenty of good unclimbed peaks in Nepal still though - in the Damodar, Mustang, and the far west.

I have spent far too many hours and days researching unclimbed peaks in the HD, HI, GE etc ;-)

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Re: Unclimbed peaks (identification / confirmation)

by Bruno » Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:47 am

Thanks a lot Damien for all the information!

Damien Gildea wrote:INFO has this as just 'Pk 6246' and no mention of an ascent

Sorry, but what do you mean with INFO?

Damien Gildea wrote:But it's hardly an independent peak, more like a point on the ridge running down to the Amphu Labcha, no?

Yes, but it is the highest point on the whole ridge between Ama Dablan and Amphu I. With 300m prominence, it is not so bad either. In any case It is much more prominent than lower Ombigaichen located next to it.

Damien Gildea wrote:Officially Khangri is unclimbed, it's the peak just west of Pumori. It's only just an independent peak, not much prominence, and has a nice big rock buttress on the south of it.

Yes, I had identified this one. (Khangri Shar aka West Pumori aka P6792m). It has a prominence of 328m. I posted a (cloudy) picture of it here.

Damien Gildea wrote:The HD even has Hongu Chuli as unclimbed, but that is on record climbed by the NZers in the 50s. They climbed a lot of peaks around there back then.

Yes, I had noticed there was a discrepancy between the HD and Jurgalski table mentioning it as climbed in 1952.

Damien Gildea wrote:I have spent far too many hours and days researching unclimbed peaks in the HD, HI, GE etc ;-)

oops, me too...

I'll post a few extra peaks for which I have some doubts.

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Re: Unclimbed peaks (identification / confirmation)

by Bruno » Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:51 am

Chumbu
Altitude 6853m/6859m
Location 28°00'51"N 86°47'18"E
Prominence 509m
Is located fully within Nepal, just a few hundred metres south of the border with Tibet. Unclimbed according to 8000ers.com, but I wasn't able to find it in the Himalayan Database.

Any info?
Image
http://www.summitpost.org/chumbu-6859m-khangri-shar-6792m/743284/c-150674

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Re: Unclimbed peaks (identification / confirmation)

by Damien Gildea » Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:55 am

Ha! I didn't want to mention Chumbu as I was thinking of going there next month :-) But I've been busy with other things and I might not get there. Anyway, this eastern / southern side looks dangerous / hard. I did ask someone (who might know) if Chumbu might have had an unauthorised ascent, but no reply yet. There is a good chance that it has, as I am sure Hongu Chuli probably has too.

INFO is the old archives that used to be in Mountain, then High, the Climb magazines in the UK:
http://www.climbmagazine.com/ - look under the Archives button.

I agree Ombigaichen is not very Prominent - but then neither is Lhotse or Nuptse ;-) I think Eberhard usually works on a rise of 7% of the peak's altitude. So P6246 would need another 138m of climbing to be a real mountain. But you should go there anyway!

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Re: Unclimbed peaks (identification / confirmation)

by Bruno » Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:02 pm

Damien Gildea wrote:Ha! I didn't want to mention Chumbu as I was thinking of going there next month :-)

Oops, I was thinking about publishing a list of unclimbed peaks with picture, location, altitude and prominence, perhaps that's not such a good idea from my side...

Damien Gildea wrote:INFO is the old archives that used to be in Mountain, then High, the Climb magazines in the UK

Thanks for the info on INFO, I didn't know it.

Damien Gildea wrote:I think Eberhard usually works on a rise of 7% of the peak's altitud

I'm a big fan of Eberhard's lists, and he is very helpful with the identification of some peaks here in Tibet, but I am not convinced about his concept of dominance with the prominence being divided by altitude. Prominence alone is a better parameter in my opinion. I wish mountain pages in SP would include prominence next to altitude and location.

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Re: Unclimbed peaks (identification / confirmation)

by Bruno » Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:10 pm

OK, one more for the moment:
Pangbuk Ri
Altitude 6625m/6716m
Location 28°00'15"N 86°31'10"E
Prominence approx. 800m
Is located at the border between Nepal and Tibet. The Himalayan Database is listing Pangbuk as unclimbed with a question mark.

Image
http://www.summitpost.org/pangbuk-ri-6625m-unclimbed/750223

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Re: Unclimbed peaks (identification / confirmation)

by Damien Gildea » Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:56 pm

Nice photo, Bruno. P6589 is the peak that was claimed to have been climbed by a Swiss guy recently, who named it after his sponsor. I can't bear to re-type it here. There was quite a controversy over this, though of course many don't care, but there has been a lot of correspondence behind the scenes with Journals and magazines etc. There is no evidence they reached the top, and plenty of reason to conclude they didn't. A disgraceful episode. I think Eberhard calls this peak Panbuk North and it's 6478m on the FinnMap. And unclimbed ;-)

I agree the Prominence thing is imperfect, but it's hard to work out some kind of Prominence indicator that is suitable for everywhere. 300m might be a lot of climbing in the Alps/USA/NZ, but on a 7000m peak with 2000m of climbing below it, that 300m hardly seems 'prominent' :-)

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Re: Unclimbed peaks (identification / confirmation)

by Bruno » Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:29 am

Damien Gildea wrote:I can't bear to re-type it here.

Oh, I see... I had not made the connection with this peak.

When I heard about this ascent, I was scandalised to hear this proposal to name a Peak after a watch making company... That's simply ridiculous... But I didn't know there was some controversy whether they reached the summit or not.

A last question for a while: what about Khumbutse? I could only find a possible ascent in 1993 by Dutch Bart Vos from Tibet (without permit), but the Himalayan Database doesn't include his claims on Khumbutse and Lingtren. From what I understand, there are some doubts also about his Pumori ascent from the north side.

Would you consider Khumbutse as climbed or unclimbed? Are there some reasonable evidence to conclude it was climbed?

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Re: Unclimbed peaks (identification / confirmation)

by Corax » Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:59 am

Bruno wrote:A last question for a while: what about Khumbutse? I could only find a possible ascent in 1993 by Dutch Bart Vos from Tibet (without permit),
Would you consider Khumbutse as climbed or unclimbed? Are there some reasonable evidence to conclude it was climbed?


Bart Vos...Everest...Dhaulagiri...
It's dangerous to be right when the government is wrong. Voltaire

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Re: Unclimbed peaks (identification / confirmation)

by Corax » Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:44 am

Bruno wrote:Oops, I was thinking about publishing a list of unclimbed peaks with picture, location, altitude and prominence, perhaps that's not such a good idea from my side...


NO!
Not a good idea at all :twisted: 8)
It's dangerous to be right when the government is wrong. Voltaire

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Re: Unclimbed peaks (identification / confirmation)

by Bruno » Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:01 pm

Corax wrote:
Bruno wrote:A last question for a while: what about Khumbutse? I could only find a possible ascent in 1993 by Dutch Bart Vos from Tibet (without permit),
Would you consider Khumbutse as climbed or unclimbed? Are there some reasonable evidence to conclude it was climbed?


Bart Vos...Everest...Dhaulagiri...

Got your point. Maybe he climbed that one too...

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Re: Unclimbed peaks (identification / confirmation)

by Damien Gildea » Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:49 am

Bruno wrote:Would you consider Khumbutse as climbed or unclimbed? Are there some reasonable evidence to conclude it was climbed?


EJ has the FA by Slovenians (then Yugoslavs) in 1979, no doubt same time they did the west ridge of Everest. I actually thought that Dan Bryant or someone from Shipton's expedition had made the FA in the 50s, but I might be thinking of Lingtren, right next door.

Also, Loretan climbed a couple of the 6000ers around the central Rongbuk in 1986 before racing up the Supercouloir, and I know others have done the same.

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Re: Unclimbed peaks (identification / confirmation)

by Bruno » Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:40 am

Damien Gildea wrote:
Bruno wrote:Would you consider Khumbutse as climbed or unclimbed? Are there some reasonable evidence to conclude it was climbed?


EJ has the FA by Slovenians (then Yugoslavs) in 1979, no doubt same time they did the west ridge of Everest. I actually thought that Dan Bryant or someone from Shipton's expedition had made the FA in the 50s, but I might be thinking of Lingtren, right next door.

Also, Loretan climbed a couple of the 6000ers around the central Rongbuk in 1986 before racing up the Supercouloir, and I know others have done the same.


Thank you Damien, I couldn't find Khumbutse in EJ lists, that's why I posted it.

Yes, Loretan climbed two 6000ers (on the same day) from his BC, but in his book he only mentions that the altitude was about 6000-6500. I was guessing he might have been to the peaks right to the N the Khumbutse. But you are right, many others may have climbed it as it is very accessible from EBC.

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