Here is an interesting article from the MOUNTAINEERS periodical that the folks at the Sierra Park Human Performance Lab showed me this afternoon, that mimics the training protocol that we have incorporated into our pre-climb training recommdnation.....


Low-Altitude Training for High-Altitude Climbing
By Ryan Taylor PhD - March 14th, 2002


Altitude and Performance
Recently, as climbing gyms have boomed, more and more climbers from low elevation areas, are seeking higher grounds and traveling to much higher elevations to climb. Mountains like Orizaba (18,404ft) in Mexico and Mount Rainier (14,411ft) in Washington state are at altitudes where the oxygen pressure is low enough to limit aerobic performance, which is necessary in climbing. Training methods and the problems associated with this type of altitude are of great importance for climbers in these areas because they have to train at such low elevations. Fortunately, there are ways to prepare for this type of excursion in order to maximize performance, limit the danger of high altitude disorders and sicknesses, and increase the enjoyment of the climb.

One's aerobic performance can best be measured in terms of his or her VO2 max--the maximum amount of oxygen that one's body can consume. The amount of oxygen consumed by your body is directly proportional to the amount of work or exercise your body is performing. For example, walking up a mountain at a certain speed requires a certain amount of oxygen. Increasing the speed of walking requires even more oxygen. When you are walking or running as fast and as hard as you can, you are likely consuming the maximum amount of oxygen that is possible for your body, i.e., your VO2 max. The higher a person's VO2 max, the harder or more intense they can work. Conversely, altitude lowers a person's VO2 max which then lowers work capacity.

The problem of oxygen consumption is compounded at altitude because of the reduced pressure of oxygen. Walking up main dome on a 30 degree slope at 3 mi/hr with a 40 pound pack is easier than walking up to the summit of Mount Rainier on a 30 degree slope at 3 mi/hr with a 40 pound pack. You are doing the same amount of work, but since your body's ability to deliver oxygen to the working muscles at altitude is lower than at sea level, you are working closer to your maximum capacity.

Training
This is where training comes in. Everybody is born with the ability to reach a certain VO2 max. One person may be able to reach a certain VO2 max but another person, no matter how hard they train, will never be able to reach a comparable VO2 max. If you are genetically able to reach a certain VO2 max, and you don't train, your VO2 max is not as high as it can be. Therefore, by training to increase your VO2 max, a certain amount of work like hiking up Mount Rainier on a 30 degree slope at 3 mi/hr with a 40 pound pack is easier, and the maximum amount of work you can do is increased. Proper training, directed at increasing your VO2 max, makes it is easier to climb and you can climb harder.

Let's look at training for this incredible trip that you have been saving for. The best type of training is highly aerobic activities like running and cycling. You need to start out slow and short if you have not trained before. Eventually work your way up to doing one of these exercises 3-5 days a week for 30min to an hour at 70-85% of your maximum heart rate. Your maximum heart rate can be estimated by subtracting your age from 220. For example, a 24 year old person will have a maximum heart rate of 196 beats per minute and 70-85% of this is 137-167 beats per minute. While doing this aerobic type of exercise you can throw in one minute intervals of higher intensity in order to push your limits. Also, you can supplement this exercise with your regular weight and climbing workouts.

Another good training technique is to, at least one day a week, do an exercise that resembles what you will encounter while climbing. This can include hiking, or running stairs with your pack on. When training for a climb, my regular weekly work out consists of running 3 days, lifting weights 1 day, running stairs 1 day, sport climbing 1 day, and resting on the last one. Generally you should allow a minimum of three months in order to get the most out of your training, but even longer if possible. All of the normal dietary and hydration concerns are the same as with any training program.

[b]On the Climb
Several months of training in the flatlands have passed and the big climb is arriving. As soon as you drive to basecamp on Orizaba (approx. 10,000ft), the acclimatization period begins. Coming from such a low altitude, you need to rest for 2-5 days at this altitude in order to maximize your acclimatization period. Any longer than this and you may actually detrain from lack of activity. Typically, waiting the full 5 days is best for your performance, but the time is highly dependent upon the person because some people have more difficulty in acclimatizing than others. An acclimatization period is necessary for your body to make adaptations that will help your body deal with the altitude better.[/b]

Another important factor when climbing is remaining hydrated. Your body's natural response to altitude is to dump fluid by urinating, plus the dryer air speeds evaporation from your breath. It should be noted that consuming alcohol prior to or during your climb also has a dehydrating effect. These factors will make your ascent more difficult and increases your risk of the different types of mountain sickness.

Many problems associated with altitude, such as acute mountain sickness, pulmonary edema, and cerebral edema, can be better dealt with and prevented by having a higher VO2 max and remaining hydrated. A more complete discussion of these illnesses can be found in a book called Medicine for Mountaineering 4th ed., edited by James A. Wilkerson, M.D., published by the Mountaineers 1992. This of course is not all of the information available on altitude and training for altitude, but I hope it is a good overview.

That last quote is interersting Chief as I have that book and the author states something a bit different.

I cant copy and paste unfortunately but you can refer to pages 229 and 230 of the book.

http://books.google.com/books?id=rgjQxa ... ss&f=false

I have the Second Edition of J.M Wilkerson's book and Chapt 12 (page 136-151) refers to only "Medical Problems of High Altitude" and there is nothing in regards to "prevention/preparation protocols".

Just illness's associated with Altitude.

I believe that Ryan is just referring to Wilkerson's work as to the illness possibilities Wilkerson refers to in his book and not the training/preparation aspect.

The Chief wrote:I have the Second Edition of J.M Wilkerson's book and Chapt 12 (page 136-151) refers to only "Medical Problems of High Altitude" and there is nothing in regards to "prevention/preparation protocols".

Just illness's associated with Altitude.

I believe that Ryan is just referring to Wilkerson's work as to the illness's in this book and not the training/preparation aspect.

Chief, I think all of Ryan's advice you quoted is great except for:

'prevented by having a higher VO2 max'.

..and I assume that is more of a grammatical/semantic oversight more than anything else.

radson wrote:

The Chief wrote:I have the Second Edition of J.M Wilkerson's book and Chapt 12 (page 136-151) refers to only "Medical Problems of High Altitude" and there is nothing in regards to "prevention/preparation protocols".

Just illness's associated with Altitude.

I believe that Ryan is just referring to Wilkerson's work as to the illness's in this book and not the training/preparation aspect.

Chief, I think all of Ryan's advice you quoted is great except for:

'prevented by having a higher VO2 max'.

..and I assume that is more of a grammatical/semantic oversight more than anything else.

Let me re-emphasize that this not my advise. Rather, that of local Altitude Performance Physiologist's (Sierra Park Performance Lab) that work daily with many elite athletes including many from the US Ski & Snowboard Team, US Track and Field Team, Ultra-Runners that compete in events that include high altitudes and many folks from around the country that are aspiring to climb at high altitudes .

I enjoyed the long quote...but nothing in that quote gives any explanation why a higher VO2max (or actually better, lactate threshold) reduces altitude symptoms. I've speculated on some reasons but none are direct.

I realize the one statement at the end makes the claim that it matters, but I'd like to here someone actually explain why it does. Otherwise I tend to believe they are regurgitating things they have read. The fact that anyone focuses on VO2max and not more pertinent variables is a warning sign.

Anyone know if swimmers handle altitude better? They at least partially train under limited oxygen exposure and may have to increase their lung capacity (i.e. increase ability to create a pressure differential) which would be very beneficial at altitude.

Ze wrote:I enjoyed the long quote...but nothing in that quote gives any explanation why a higher VO2max (or actually better, lactate threshold) reduces altitude symptoms. I've speculated on some reasons but none are direct.

I realize the one statement at the end makes the claim that it matters, but I'd like to here someone actually explain why it does. Otherwise I tend to believe they are regurgitating things they have read. The fact that anyone focuses on VO2max and not more pertinent variables is a warning sign.

Because it works.

Try it and practice it with consistency for 6 months and then tell me it doesn't.

Till then, please, all of you, unless you have actually applied this training protocol and it has in fact failed, please quit spewing that it doesn't.

Also, the altitudes we are speaking of here in the OP are those one will find in the Sierra...10-14K'.

Please read the OP authors post.

Not the death zone found on Everest.

Those individuals who are in better cardiovascular condition will have higher VO2 max values and can exercise more intensely than those who are not as fit. Studies show that you can significantly increase your VO2 max by regular training and by gradually increasing your activity level until you can work at an intensity that raises your heart rate to between 55 and 85% of its maximum for at least 20-40 minutes 3-5 times a week.

Remember, having a high VO2 Max does not guarantee that you will be able to physically attain the summit you're after -- you may still be someone who suffers from HAPE, HACE or other altitude-related illness -- BUT your chances of success are significantly increased the fitter you are and the more comfortable your body is working at all intensity levels (including those near anaerobic threshold!).

And that is my point of improving ones VO2 Max and heading on up to altitude.

FortMental wrote:Hey OP: Don't get confused by all the "opinions", 3rd person anecdotes, scrambled facts, and half-remembered details. Currently, the best source of information, for your particular case, is scouring the (on-line) exercise physiology literature published by the US military. Lots of (real dudes) must go from near sea level to high altitude in VERY short order to fight in high areas of Afghanistan. They don't put up with altitude studies performed on "elite" athletes, cyclists, marathon runners, and other super-specialized dainty types; just regular guys, in decent shape, who have to get off a plane and hump heavy loads at altitude. Do your homework, and make up your own mind. Then, you can come back and spray with authority!

That is funny... and thanks for the pitch.

Where do you think I received most of my initial first hand training/experience/protocols/info that I shared here?

And BTW, most of those "military" dudes you speak of are in fact some of the best and most elite athletes, cyclists, ultra-distance runners, and other super-specialized dainty types when at home in conus and not in country. Just goes to show how many of these folks you really have been in contact with in real life.

I know, I was one of em for 24 years.

Here is one of the young lads (BM2 (DV)) I helped train in '92 in Diego Garcia and then went on to win this event....

http://ws100.com/historybyyear.htm

1997 • Course Record! 369 Starters, 257 Finishers - 69.9%

Fabulous weather and a virtually snow-free course combined to produce the second highest finishing rate in race history! In his first finish at Western States, Mike Morton of Maryland smashed Tom Johnson's 15:54:05 course record by over 13 minutes (15:40:41), and he became the first non-Californian to win the race overall.



But of course these type events are for the mere dainty at heart, right?

Oh yeah, 30% of the entrants and finishers for the past twelve years are either Active Duty or prior service Spec War dudes.

Oh, and here is one of those dainty events that I particularly enjoy training for and then participating in that has lots to do with this thread...

The Everest Challenge

"Total elevation gain of 29,035 feet in 206 miles. Cumulative time over the two days of riding."

DAY ONE...


DAY TWO...

Alpynisto wrote:By now you are probably confused by the buffoonery of the Chief. Suffice to say he's full of shit.

Here are some more confused buffoons that are also full of shit. They all staunchly speak of, practice intensely and promote VO2Max, Lactate Threshold, Short Intense Interval and Strength Endurance Training in their books and active training programs.

Some are even active DOD (SPECWAR) Consultants and teach the dudes that FORTMENTAL speaks of, this exact same "full of shit" training protocol:

Mark promotes it in all of Chapt 5 of his book:

and has incorporated it as a very intricate component into his phenomenal elite climbing and ultra-endurance training program where some of the best alpinist/climbers that have set speed records at altitudes, go to train, prepare for and get/stay fit at:


This dude speaks of it for extreme ice work at altitude in his great training & technique book...

Let's not forget this buffoon either. Even Ed has incorporated it into his year round training routine.


This full of shit dude shares his personal training routine. Though not "altitude" specific, he promotes just this type of short intensity VO2 Max endurance training as well in the last chapter of his in depth book...

BTW, M Twight participated in the local Big E-Challenge a couple of years ago. Ran into him at the end on Day 2 in Big Pine. Asked him what he thought of the deal, his reply was simply..."This is the real deal and it definitely kicks the living shit outta ya!"

Here is what the buffoon full of shit Twight has to say about all this....
"Yeah, a diet of 20-minute workouts got me through the Iron Horse Classic and the Everest Challenge ... and if you believe that I know a guy who's selling a bridge ..."

Oh yeah, almost forgot, this Buffoon speaks of and promotes it throughout his classic training book

So I think I will stay in line and company with these buffoons that are all soooooooo full of shit as well.

***PS: This training protocol isn't for everyone as it takes hardcore discipline, mental/physical consistency and dedication in order for it to be effective.***

Remember, having a high VO2 Max does not guarantee that you will be able to physically attain the summit you're after -- you may still be someone who suffers from HAPE, HACE or other altitude-related illness -- BUT your chances of success are significantly increased the fitter you are and the more comfortable your body is working at all intensity levels (including those near anaerobic threshold!).

Totally agree.

From Dr. Chuck Houston's very informative book...

Several comments and included altitude physiological studies (Chuck Fulco US ARMY Research Inst) indicate that ....

a. "Max work capacity (V02 Max) decreases about 1% per year after the 40's, but this decline can be slowed or arrested, possibly even reversed, by regular intense aerobic exercise."

b. "Physical Fitness does not equate to better altitude tolerance...but, the fit climbers moves and works more fuel efficiently, uses less 02 and in most cases is more 02-and-fuel efficient at altitude. This certainly suggest, if it does not prove, that the fit climber might do better in the low 02 atmosphere of the high mountains. Logically and theoretically this is true. It is equally true the the fit experienced and skillful climber moves more easily than does the amateur... And, obviously, by being able to climb more rapidly, the fit and experienced climber will be in harm's way for a shorter time."

c. "those (athletes/climbers) planning to compete in endurance events at altitude, will probably benefit from training at altitude. Thus, live high and train high theory certainly suggests that the fit climber might do better at altitude."

d. "Levine concluded from several well controlled studies that combining high altitude acclimatization with low altitude interval/intense training in well trained/fit competitive runners results in significant improvements in both sea-level and altitude 5000m times above and beyond sea-level and altitude controls."

The Chief wrote:Because it works.

Try it and practice it with consistency for 6 months and then tell me it doesn't.

Till then, please, all of you, unless you have actually applied this training protocol and it has in fact failed, please quit spewing that it doesn't.

Oh I have.. I do plenty of very painful cardio, and my VO2 max is pretty much at its upper limit, 5.4 L/min (I'm 6' tall).

Relative VO2 is more important for performance (64 ml/kg/min), but be careful about interpretation. It does not indicate cardiovascular fitness alone, but a combination of fitness and weight. Heart size is not dependent on how much fat / muscle you add / lose, but your relative value will change. Because of weightlifting I weight 190 now but I used to weigh 150, you could imagine the change in relative VO2max by that alone...but it doesn't change my cardiovascular system.

Weight alone is important, and very important at altitude, because a heavier person needs more oxygen for a given body frame. That will make it harder to acclimate.

When I went up Whitney (dayhike), I got quite sick on top even though the trail was not hard. No fatigue, just nausea. Being in great shape doesn't stop that from happening.

But having more weight and workload probably makes it worse. So if you really want to be good at altitude, be really skinny

Ze wrote:

The Chief wrote:Because it works.

Try it and practice it with consistency for 6 months and then tell me it doesn't.

Till then, please, all of you, unless you have actually applied this training protocol and it has in fact failed, please quit spewing that it doesn't.

Oh I have.. I do plenty of very painful cardio, and my VO2 max is pretty much at its upper limit, 5.4 L/min (I'm 6' tall).

Relative VO2 is more important for performance (64 ml/kg/min), but be careful about interpretation. It does not indicate cardiovascular fitness alone, but a combination of fitness and weight. Heart size is not dependent on how much fat / muscle you add / lose, but your relative value will change. Because of weightlifting I weight 190 now but I used to weigh 150, you could imagine the change in relative VO2max by that alone...but it doesn't change my cardiovascular system.

Weight alone is important, and very important at altitude, because a heavier person needs more oxygen for a given body frame. That will make it harder to acclimate.

When I went up Whitney (dayhike), I got quite sick on top even though the trail was not hard. No fatigue, just nausea. Being in great shape doesn't stop that from happening.

But having more weight and workload probably makes it worse. So if you really want to be good at altitude, be really skinny

I believe that ones realistic and proportional "Body Mass/BF%" in relation to muscle/fat % and height, not weight, are the key. I am 65", weigh 165 but my standing BF% floats around 11-12%. My thighs measure 24.5", Biceps at 14.5", waist 30" and chest is a burly 44".

Also, one's lungs in-take capacity/transfer & heart capacity/performance, plays a big part at altitude, according to Fulco's V02 Max altitude performance studies. This is of course is achieved through regular and intensity/interval aerobic training and genetics. Intense Training to achieve ones max VO2 Max potential, is a very critical component to this level of performance at altitude, according to this study.


I have had more "skinny" unfit folks fail at altitude than normal sized fit folks, btw.

The Chief wrote:I believe that ones realistic and proportional "Body Mass/BF%" in relation to muscle/fat % and height, not weight, are the key. I am 65", weigh 165 but my standing BF% floats around 11-12%. My thighs measure 24.5", Biceps at 14.5", waist 30" and chest is a burly 44".

Also, one's lungs in-take capacity/transfer & heart capacity/performance, plays a big part at altitude, according to Fulco's V02 Max altitude performance studies. This is of course is achieved through regular and intensity/interval aerobic training and genetics. Intense Training to achieve ones max VO2 Max potential, is a very critical component to this level of performance at altitude, according to this study.


I have had more "skinny" unfit folks fail at altitude than normal sized fit folks, btw.

lol nice "stats".

I mention height / frame because that is related to your VO2 "potential". A 5' tall person is going to have perhaps almost 1/2 the VO2 consumption of a 6' tall person. Naturally, taller people have bigger hearts.

if you add muscle, your heart doesn't get bigger. I get the benefit of muscle - but from an endurance performance aspect you basically only want what you absolutely need - and this is seen clearly in the body composition of endurance athletes! More muscle just means more work & energy you have to use.

Who is Fulco? Have any links to his stuff? I definitely believe lung capacity relative to weight would be a factor in performance at altitude, wondering what training actually makes it improve. Perhaps one minute intervals could do this, 1 min at 9 mph 15% at end of the workout makes my breathing seem "turbulent".

Ze wrote:Who is Fulco? Have any links to his stuff?

Surprised that in all your work you have never come across C.S. Fulco as he is one of the premiere Altitude 02 Physiology Performance researchers.

Here is CS Fulco's bio & some Altitude V02 Max/Performance Research Work:

a. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term ... co%20CS%22[Author]&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstract]

b. http://www.biomedexperts.com/Profile.bm ... es_S_Fulco

Dr. Houston cites some of his VO2 Max research at altitude in his book.


On an interesting note, stopped in at the local Performance Lab and asked them what % of folks that they have evaluated were at their Max V02 when initially tested.

They told me that their records for the past 4 years indicated less than 5% of all subsequent follow-up clients (those that had established a base evaluation and returned with follow-up evals after training) had actually recorded an equal level V02 Max. 95% had actually increased their level. Some by as much as 18%. All this after they were set-up with a training routine/protocol to increase their aerobic capacity/lactate threshold abilities and in turn, their V02 Max.