Partly understandable. I guess a number of people without preparation decide to go off the marked trails and then they end up calling help - perhaps the rescue team had enough of such actions (plus we know that they're not overpaid for this job). On the other hand, even an experienced person can get into trouble on those trails - the "moral punishment" is not justified in such cases.
Some kind of restriceted access (with "free" rescue service) should be granted for those who are "qualified" (i.e. members of climbing associations). Rescue fee could be charged for the rest. That's how it's managed in the High Tatras, for example.
I'm afraid I disagree with your conclusion. First and foremost, nature conservation has nothing to do with rescue services. If there are too many visitors to a precious and fragile area, a number of permits should be issued - AFAIK this is how it's normally managed in the US - as a last resort the most valuable/vulnerable areas can be closed. But closed must mean nobody can enter: No members of any associations, no guides with clients, no certified climbers, no members of parliament/government – nobody. Whether rescue operations should be paid by the state is a completely different matter, similar to the question whether or not seeing the doctor should be free of charge. Even though I don't like the key Slovak regulations (banning access to so many wonderful places, e.g. to the Okno in the Lower Tatras just recently, not to mention the Tatras Nat'l Park's administration with their "hire a guide, then you won't harm nature" ideology), what I like about them is that (AFAIK) you pay for the rescue operation - whether or not you're a member of some organisation - unless you have a valid "out-and-active extreme" insurance policy (see e.g. here); in other words, if you've booked your insurance you won't pay any more. (The illegal climbers will pay a fine for breaking the park rules though.)
You made a point here, Jacek (distinguishing between access policy and rescue policy). However, in the case of PC, most unmarked routes coincide with those that require a fair deal of sometimes exposed scrambling. My hypothesis is that "nature conservation" stands purely for marketing/legal backing purposes here, the real aim is to keep people off those trails, so there's less job to do. Anyhow, "officially", those trails were already "banned" before, only that there was no fine for breaking the "rule". As for the insurance/payment scenario, I agree with you.
Agree or not I know just one thing: this will not keep me away from that beauties and I will just pray not to need help :)! I dont know what you will do but for sure I will still go climbing unmarked routes in PC! Just one thing :D....Im wondering if they will catch some of their good friends they will still make them to pay????? This guys from the rescue team will still go and climb there for their pleasure????
You are familiar with those routes, so I don't think there'll be problem. As for me, I shall first familiarize myself wit PC, only then I will try to venture into unmarked areas. As for the good friends, I am sure they will escape the fine...
Ok thats bad, really bad! Jandarmerie gives this fees also they send patrols on the unamrked routes and they give big fees for about 1000 E if they catch you! Another group should pay cause they lost the marked route and got into an unmarked one and they called for help!On the alpinet (romanian site) started between climbers many discussions and we all are pissed off! It will be really bad cause nobody will ask help to 112 and it will end with death people or just we will ask help from friends or.... What about the crimes of the forests, they dont care about that? Well no cause thewy are busy to catch climbers now! What about the rockclimbing routes? All are on the unmarked routes! Thats sucks!
peterbud - Oct 21, 2011 4:58 pm - Voted 10/10
Re: News from PCPartly understandable. I guess a number of people without preparation decide to go off the marked trails and then they end up calling help - perhaps the rescue team had enough of such actions (plus we know that they're not overpaid for this job). On the other hand, even an experienced person can get into trouble on those trails - the "moral punishment" is not justified in such cases.
Some kind of restriceted access (with "free" rescue service) should be granted for those who are "qualified" (i.e. members of climbing associations). Rescue fee could be charged for the rest. That's how it's managed in the High Tatras, for example.
yatsek - Oct 21, 2011 6:35 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: News from PCTo Peter,
I'm afraid I disagree with your conclusion. First and foremost, nature conservation has nothing to do with rescue services. If there are too many visitors to a precious and fragile area, a number of permits should be issued - AFAIK this is how it's normally managed in the US - as a last resort the most valuable/vulnerable areas can be closed. But closed must mean nobody can enter: No members of any associations, no guides with clients, no certified climbers, no members of parliament/government – nobody. Whether rescue operations should be paid by the state is a completely different matter, similar to the question whether or not seeing the doctor should be free of charge. Even though I don't like the key Slovak regulations (banning access to so many wonderful places, e.g. to the Okno in the Lower Tatras just recently, not to mention the Tatras Nat'l Park's administration with their "hire a guide, then you won't harm nature" ideology), what I like about them is that (AFAIK) you pay for the rescue operation - whether or not you're a member of some organisation - unless you have a valid "out-and-active extreme" insurance policy (see e.g. here); in other words, if you've booked your insurance you won't pay any more. (The illegal climbers will pay a fine for breaking the park rules though.)
peterbud - Oct 22, 2011 4:26 pm - Voted 10/10
Re: News from PCYou made a point here, Jacek (distinguishing between access policy and rescue policy). However, in the case of PC, most unmarked routes coincide with those that require a fair deal of sometimes exposed scrambling. My hypothesis is that "nature conservation" stands purely for marketing/legal backing purposes here, the real aim is to keep people off those trails, so there's less job to do. Anyhow, "officially", those trails were already "banned" before, only that there was no fine for breaking the "rule". As for the insurance/payment scenario, I agree with you.
andreeacorodeanu - Oct 24, 2011 11:33 am - Hasn't voted
Re: News from PCAgree or not I know just one thing: this will not keep me away from that beauties and I will just pray not to need help :)! I dont know what you will do but for sure I will still go climbing unmarked routes in PC! Just one thing :D....Im wondering if they will catch some of their good friends they will still make them to pay????? This guys from the rescue team will still go and climb there for their pleasure????
peterbud - Oct 26, 2011 3:58 am - Voted 10/10
Re: News from PCYou are familiar with those routes, so I don't think there'll be problem. As for me, I shall first familiarize myself wit PC, only then I will try to venture into unmarked areas. As for the good friends, I am sure they will escape the fine...
yatsek - Oct 26, 2011 4:36 am - Hasn't voted
Re: News from PCA bit off topic but partly related - some news from the States
andreeacorodeanu - Oct 26, 2011 4:12 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: News from PC:), cant wait to find out your opinion about PC :D!
andreeacorodeanu - Nov 15, 2011 3:33 am - Hasn't voted
Re: News from PCOk thats bad, really bad! Jandarmerie gives this fees also they send patrols on the unamrked routes and they give big fees for about 1000 E if they catch you! Another group should pay cause they lost the marked route and got into an unmarked one and they called for help!On the alpinet (romanian site) started between climbers many discussions and we all are pissed off! It will be really bad cause nobody will ask help to 112 and it will end with death people or just we will ask help from friends or.... What about the crimes of the forests, they dont care about that? Well no cause thewy are busy to catch climbers now! What about the rockclimbing routes? All are on the unmarked routes! Thats sucks!
peterbud - Dec 12, 2011 1:24 pm - Voted 10/10
Re: News from PCHope there will be an intelligent resolution. Looks like it's easier the hit down on the climber community than the wood stealing community...