Its difficult with so many languages to fit them all on one page, and to make this a truely worthwhile recource, I think it must contain information that can't be found anywhere else. Through colaberation this is quite possible as SP has members all over the world.
One way to do it, without trying to fit everything on one page, would be to create a number of pages based on language families, for instance a page for the Romance languages (French, Spanish, Portugese and Italian), a page for the Germanic languages (German, Dutch, Norwegian, Swedish, Icelandic etc), a page for the Slavic languages (Russian, Ukranian etc) and so on. If you wanted to include local terms, such as are found in most languages, they could then be included on those specific pages. These family pages would then be attached to a parent page that would contain a short introduction. For ease of use the format of each page should be uniform and consistent with all other pages that belong to the parent.
It's a big project, but it could be done in stages, not all pages have to be made at once. It would be a source of information unique to SP and be of enourmous use and interest.
How about a child page called "Regional Climbing Dictionary" (or something similar)? A first column with the english word and after that... well, I can think of basque, catalan, maybe galician (I don't know if it's really very different from spanish), welsh, gaelic, maybe breton,... and so on. Ideas would be welcome!
About our idea on specific areas of Spain, well, I don't know if it would fit in such a page... Maybe a second child page with a title such as "Regional Mountain Terms in Spain". Just a suggestion, anyway.
I just finished reading it. It is good but it is just for rock climbing, not mountain climbing. As has been said, we need these terms available on SP even if they are someplace else. I was working on an English/Spanish dictionary, but haven't finished it yet. It is for the American English speaking traveler to South America, especially Peru, so it includes more than just climbing and mountaineering terms. It includes general terms that a hiker or climber would find helpful on a mountain adventure in S. America. I emailed it to nikolai79.
Keep up the good work and let me know if I can help in any other way.
We have to accelerate now, to provide an excellent page, as it is featured on the front page ;o)
People will be expecting good work from us.
What about the list of other words I had given you : when do we add them in ?
I´ll try to include them tonigh... I was the weekend out, and this week I have to solve somo "personal issues"... so I haven´t got as many time I wanted... I´ll do my best, let me have a look the shared spreadsheet.
Eduardo, horcada/o en inglés sería "gap", en otros idiomas ahora mismo no me sale. Sería bueno que se pusiera que quiere decir (m) y (f), en otros idiomas masculino y femenino no empiezan por m y f respectivamente
I´d like to show you some ideas and other things I think we have to discuss (the admin members and the rest of SP communities, as a democratic group we are). All kind of comments and ideas are wellcome.
* Alphabetical order of the English term.
* Similar words in different languages together (pass - paso, both have the same latin root)
* Maybe it can be a good idea remark in any way the more common term when we have some word
with the same or similar meaning.
* Spanish language: differences between Spanish from Spain and Spain from South america.
Vic Hanson wrote:
"I'm wondering how much difference there is between S. American spanish and Spain spanish?
For example here all the maps use "quebrada" for a small canyon, actually anything except a
very large canyon. However my dictionary (University of Chicago Spanish - English) says that
a quebrada is a ravine. In U.S. English a ravine is usually quite small, like a large gully.
Of course I'm not even sure in English where something changes from a ditch, gully, ravine,
gorge and canyon. I guess some terms like this are going to be hard to define. A small lake
is a pond, is that the same as a laguna? We also use lagoon, but I can't really define it. I
think a tarn is a small mountain lake. This could get very complicated!"
a) We could add something like (SAS=South America Spanish) to distinguish between both
(Eurpean and American). In any case, this words from America would be useful for climbers on
the great South American mountains, so they may be included.
b) Also, as Vic said, sometimes some words has an special meaning. Any idea to solve this
problem?
* As Diego Sahagun said: detail the genders of the words: m=masculine, f=femenine.
* jck offer us to include the Polish terms... it´s an old theme... We have to decide if
we´re going to add more languages in the page or in child pages.
If we add too many contents to the page it will be difficult to understand... and mantein.
Also, I was thinking maybe someone would like to print the page if he/she travels abroad to
climb mountains... in this case, the best is a table with 4-6 languages that can be printed
on an A4 paper.
We can use the shared spreadsheet solution for other languages too.
I'd say you are right: tables should be no longer than 4 to 6 languages. We all want to make it as useful as possible, and that would be the way to do it. The trouble is choosing the languages. If we look at the number of people speaking them around the world, I think english (of course!!!), spanish, french and german would have to be in the main page. Perhaps russian, arabic or chinese would deserve a place here (regarding the number of speakers criteria) but I don't know what do you think about that...
Apart from that, "regional" children pages would be ideal to group (as proposed) related languages with a lower number of speakers. And those children pages would also be the place to write about regional changes of a same languages or geographical variations (such as south-american and european spanish). I also believe english should be included in every table, as it is the common language used here at SP.
I think that we should leave the page as it is and add other languages as children. Italian is spoken only in Italy but Italy is one of the most visited countries by alpinists and hikers from all the world so if this is a mountain dictionary this must be considered.
I agree with Ganesh, we have to think about this dictionary in terms of countries concerned by mountains :
- English for North American ranges and New-Zealand Alps
- Italian and German for the Alps
- French for the Alps and the Pyrénées
- Spanish for the Pyrénées and the Andes
These are the undisputed main five languages, I think.
But then we can think of countries that have a strong mountain history such as Slovenia + other Countries from Former Yougoslavia (Serbo-croatian ?) and Poland (Polish), with a large community on SP speaking these two languages.
That would make 7 languages in the "primary" dictionnary.
Some other languages could go into a "secondary" dictionnary, among others :
- Portuguese
- Norwegian
- Swedish
- Suomi (Finnish)
- Hungarian
- Romanian
- Czech
- Russian (can we make cyrillic letters ?)
- Pakistanese (a few active members on SP)
That's another 9 languages.
And why not a third dictionnary with regional languages :
- Welsh
- Scottish
- Basque
- Catalan
- Swiss German
and so on ...
All of us have at least the opinion English-Spanish-French-Italian-German it´s the languages than have to be included in this pages.
But do we add more languages on this page or those languages must be added on child pages?
The groups of languages as Nanul said I think it´s goog. This way similar languages will be together.
In each child page will be English so you can translate every word in every language.
While we all decide something we can add new members to spreadsheet access, so they can add words in these other languages. It´s not difficult later to publish 5, 7 or the number of languages we decide and use the same spreadsheet to publish the tables for the children pages.
Nanuls - Sep 26, 2007 3:15 pm - Voted 10/10
Re: Just a thoughtIts difficult with so many languages to fit them all on one page, and to make this a truely worthwhile recource, I think it must contain information that can't be found anywhere else. Through colaberation this is quite possible as SP has members all over the world.
One way to do it, without trying to fit everything on one page, would be to create a number of pages based on language families, for instance a page for the Romance languages (French, Spanish, Portugese and Italian), a page for the Germanic languages (German, Dutch, Norwegian, Swedish, Icelandic etc), a page for the Slavic languages (Russian, Ukranian etc) and so on. If you wanted to include local terms, such as are found in most languages, they could then be included on those specific pages. These family pages would then be attached to a parent page that would contain a short introduction. For ease of use the format of each page should be uniform and consistent with all other pages that belong to the parent.
It's a big project, but it could be done in stages, not all pages have to be made at once. It would be a source of information unique to SP and be of enourmous use and interest.
Exciting don't you think?
eza - Sep 27, 2007 9:19 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Just a thoughtHow about a child page called "Regional Climbing Dictionary" (or something similar)? A first column with the english word and after that... well, I can think of basque, catalan, maybe galician (I don't know if it's really very different from spanish), welsh, gaelic, maybe breton,... and so on. Ideas would be welcome!
About our idea on specific areas of Spain, well, I don't know if it would fit in such a page... Maybe a second child page with a title such as "Regional Mountain Terms in Spain". Just a suggestion, anyway.
toc - Sep 25, 2007 12:38 pm - Voted 10/10
good idea...as already said in the above posts. If that helps, there is small english/german dictionary attached at the bottom of the Kitzsteinhorn page.
Vic Hanson - Sep 26, 2007 8:06 pm - Hasn't voted
The climbing dictionaryI just finished reading it. It is good but it is just for rock climbing, not mountain climbing. As has been said, we need these terms available on SP even if they are someplace else. I was working on an English/Spanish dictionary, but haven't finished it yet. It is for the American English speaking traveler to South America, especially Peru, so it includes more than just climbing and mountaineering terms. It includes general terms that a hiker or climber would find helpful on a mountain adventure in S. America. I emailed it to nikolai79.
Keep up the good work and let me know if I can help in any other way.
Vic
jck - Oct 1, 2007 7:12 am - Voted 10/10
I may......do the Polish.
Andino - Oct 3, 2007 3:02 am - Hasn't voted
Re: I may...Yes, go for Polish !
Ask to Nikolai for rights ;o)
nikolai79 - Oct 2, 2007 9:59 am - Hasn't voted
Great!Let us see how to add new languages.
Andino - Oct 2, 2007 11:33 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Great!We have to accelerate now, to provide an excellent page, as it is featured on the front page ;o)
People will be expecting good work from us.
What about the list of other words I had given you : when do we add them in ?
nikolai79 - Oct 2, 2007 11:54 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Great!Hi,
I´ll try to include them tonigh... I was the weekend out, and this week I have to solve somo "personal issues"... so I haven´t got as many time I wanted... I´ll do my best, let me have a look the shared spreadsheet.
Diego Sahagún - Oct 2, 2007 6:47 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Great!Eduardo, horcada/o en inglés sería "gap", en otros idiomas ahora mismo no me sale. Sería bueno que se pusiera que quiere decir (m) y (f), en otros idiomas masculino y femenino no empiezan por m y f respectivamente
John Climber - Oct 2, 2007 3:58 pm - Voted 10/10
Muy buena idea!!Very good idea, Heel goede idee, ...mucha suerte, good luck,...sucess,..
Andino - Oct 3, 2007 2:54 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Muy buena idea!!Thanks for your support ! We are going to improve it day by day.
fossana - Oct 2, 2007 6:24 pm - Voted 10/10
excellent ideaNow if we only had a SP wiki...
supermarmot - Oct 3, 2007 3:29 am - Voted 10/10
Good idea!!...idea buena, bonne idée, buona idea, gute Idee :-)
nikolai79 - Oct 3, 2007 11:16 am - Hasn't voted
Editing Rules of this pageI´d like to show you some ideas and other things I think we have to discuss (the admin members and the rest of SP communities, as a democratic group we are). All kind of comments and ideas are wellcome.
* Alphabetical order of the English term.
* Similar words in different languages together (pass - paso, both have the same latin root)
* Maybe it can be a good idea remark in any way the more common term when we have some word
with the same or similar meaning.
* Spanish language: differences between Spanish from Spain and Spain from South america.
Vic Hanson wrote:
"I'm wondering how much difference there is between S. American spanish and Spain spanish?
For example here all the maps use "quebrada" for a small canyon, actually anything except a
very large canyon. However my dictionary (University of Chicago Spanish - English) says that
a quebrada is a ravine. In U.S. English a ravine is usually quite small, like a large gully.
Of course I'm not even sure in English where something changes from a ditch, gully, ravine,
gorge and canyon. I guess some terms like this are going to be hard to define. A small lake
is a pond, is that the same as a laguna? We also use lagoon, but I can't really define it. I
think a tarn is a small mountain lake. This could get very complicated!"
a) We could add something like (SAS=South America Spanish) to distinguish between both
(Eurpean and American). In any case, this words from America would be useful for climbers on
the great South American mountains, so they may be included.
b) Also, as Vic said, sometimes some words has an special meaning. Any idea to solve this
problem?
* As Diego Sahagun said: detail the genders of the words: m=masculine, f=femenine.
* jck offer us to include the Polish terms... it´s an old theme... We have to decide if
we´re going to add more languages in the page or in child pages.
If we add too many contents to the page it will be difficult to understand... and mantein.
Also, I was thinking maybe someone would like to print the page if he/she travels abroad to
climb mountains... in this case, the best is a table with 4-6 languages that can be printed
on an A4 paper.
We can use the shared spreadsheet solution for other languages too.
eza - Oct 4, 2007 7:03 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Editing Rules of this pageI'd say you are right: tables should be no longer than 4 to 6 languages. We all want to make it as useful as possible, and that would be the way to do it. The trouble is choosing the languages. If we look at the number of people speaking them around the world, I think english (of course!!!), spanish, french and german would have to be in the main page. Perhaps russian, arabic or chinese would deserve a place here (regarding the number of speakers criteria) but I don't know what do you think about that...
Apart from that, "regional" children pages would be ideal to group (as proposed) related languages with a lower number of speakers. And those children pages would also be the place to write about regional changes of a same languages or geographical variations (such as south-american and european spanish). I also believe english should be included in every table, as it is the common language used here at SP.
ganesh70 - Oct 4, 2007 7:14 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Editing Rules of this pageI think that we should leave the page as it is and add other languages as children. Italian is spoken only in Italy but Italy is one of the most visited countries by alpinists and hikers from all the world so if this is a mountain dictionary this must be considered.
Andino - Oct 4, 2007 8:09 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Editing Rules of this pageI agree with Ganesh, we have to think about this dictionary in terms of countries concerned by mountains :
- English for North American ranges and New-Zealand Alps
- Italian and German for the Alps
- French for the Alps and the Pyrénées
- Spanish for the Pyrénées and the Andes
These are the undisputed main five languages, I think.
But then we can think of countries that have a strong mountain history such as Slovenia + other Countries from Former Yougoslavia (Serbo-croatian ?) and Poland (Polish), with a large community on SP speaking these two languages.
That would make 7 languages in the "primary" dictionnary.
Some other languages could go into a "secondary" dictionnary, among others :
- Portuguese
- Norwegian
- Swedish
- Suomi (Finnish)
- Hungarian
- Romanian
- Czech
- Russian (can we make cyrillic letters ?)
- Pakistanese (a few active members on SP)
That's another 9 languages.
And why not a third dictionnary with regional languages :
- Welsh
- Scottish
- Basque
- Catalan
- Swiss German
and so on ...
How does it sound to you ?
nikolai79 - Oct 4, 2007 8:44 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Editing Rules of this pageHi,
I like Nanul´s idea too.
All of us have at least the opinion English-Spanish-French-Italian-German it´s the languages than have to be included in this pages.
But do we add more languages on this page or those languages must be added on child pages?
The groups of languages as Nanul said I think it´s goog. This way similar languages will be together.
In each child page will be English so you can translate every word in every language.
While we all decide something we can add new members to spreadsheet access, so they can add words in these other languages. It´s not difficult later to publish 5, 7 or the number of languages we decide and use the same spreadsheet to publish the tables for the children pages.
Andino - Oct 4, 2007 10:14 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Editing Rules of this pageOK then !
To avoid any competition between languages, let's make how Dan suggests. And keep the main dictionary with E/S/F/I/G.