Great TR! This route looks super fun! And way to go on pushing her up and over. Nobody wants to be the bad guy, but you clearly made the right decision!
An update that I feel deserves being added. Nick Hall, the climbing ranger who helped treat Nastia's AMS and assist her down the mountain, has just died on Mt Rainier while rescuing some climbers injured in a crevasse fall on the Emmons Glacier.
I can't quite put into words what I want to say or why I've added this, except to express my condolences over Nick's passing and my appreciation for all those who selflessly volunteer to go into harms way to help other climbers. May he rest in piece :-(
And i thought i'd had an epic on that bitch of a mountain.
sickeningly enough, this almost makes me want to switch my spring plans from Liberty Ridge to Ptarmigan Ridge...
Thanks Mark, wonderful report, very useful info on the route. You are right, Ptarmigan is the better route. Keep them coming.
Cheers and good climbing, Alois.
From the vault! I forgot I had even posted this one on SP. It just sort of faded away . . . I'm glad you liked it, and I'm thinking of getting caught up on posting some more SP TRs later this year. Thanks, Alois.
Nice TR & photos! Sounds like you made the best choice by pushing on to a better spot to meet up with the rescuers. I can definitely relate to Anastasia when it comes to altitude having more of an effect on me at some times than at others. Glad you both made it down safely.
Yeah, I felt pretty lousy about dragging things on as I did rather than going down or stopping, but at least the rescuers agreed that our course of action was the best one. Lots of 'what ifs' in that one, and you can't be prepared for everything.
Man, that really had me going. So scary. Glad things turned out alright. You guys were obviously very prepared and you kept your wits about you. Great job, great trip report.
LuminousAphid - May 14, 2013 11:52 am - Hasn't voted
Read your front-page report
...and now this one after mrchad pointed out that you had another incident in the comments there.
You might think about your pace on the mountain and how it relates to your partner's pace, stamina, etc. One thing I see in common after reading both reports (besides both being nearly or truly disastrous) is that you seem very strong willed, and maybe you are pushing your partner faster and harder than they should be pushed. I have been in the partner end of this situation, and gotten sick at low altitude by going too fast and being too proud to speak up and request rests early on; you may be feeling great, but my guess is that she was feeling pretty bad long before you even noticed.
There's my 2 cents, your decision making after the fact was still great though and like others have said, you were well-prepared when things did go wrong, which is sometimes all you can do. I would start to think about prevention though if I were you, since this has happened at least twice to your partner on two different mountains at comparatively modest altitudes.
The problem here, and maybe it doesn't really come through, is that I did NOT start pushing Nastia until after (IMO) it was safer to get over to the Emmons Glacier than to stop, or retreat into dangerous and more isolated terrain. We spent 2 nights acclimatizing and her issues came on at 12,000 ft - VERY unusual. Liberty Ridge, we were prepared for 5 days while planning for 3, and we came down just fine in 4 days with both of us completely fine. Tom was FAR stronger than me. Any sense you have of me 'pushing partners' here must either be from a casual reading, or perhaps I didn't emphasize certain details enough, or perhaps it is how Chad framed things for you. He has a personal vendetta against me and has had NO interest in any reasonable discussion with me (he sends me harassing e-mails from time to time without provocation).
Nick (the Rainier ranger who assisted us) agreed with me on this decision, which I was REALLY torn about. I asked them point blank if we should have attempted to reverse the route or stop earlier, as we had the means to do so, and I really wondered if I had some major oversight there. If anyone would have good reason to conservatively tell me I screwed up, it would have been Nick, but he insisted this was one of those 's#it happens' situations and we did things about as well as they could have been done. He climbed with Nastia after this trip, and so did Vitaliy M(usiyenko) and many others, even with this event, which really was more Nastia's problem than mine (apart from me making her well-being my problem when it came to light that she was having more of a problem than she was admitting to). I am wary of climbing with Nastia, but still do, and I seem to be far more concerned about her at altitude than she is.
On the ascent I repeatedly asked her about how she was feeling, especially about altitude as she was moving slow, but on most of my mountain outings, my partners are almost always moving slower. I have been with enough slower partners that it is really hard to tell if they are less fit, having a bad day, or suffering from AMS, especially if they deny altitude sickness and do not show outward signs of AMS beyond the fatigue that is normal from thinner air and high physical exertion. Considering Nastia had been to the summit of Rainier multiple times before, and above 14,000 ft elsewhere, I had a reasonable reason to believe her history at altitude and her self-awareness about it.
I regularly run up to 13k-14k for climbs here in CA in less than 24 hrs with partners (several times a month from may through October). Honestly, her breakdown at 12,000 ft after spending 2 nights acclimatizing has me EXTREMELY disconcerted about these things, but the high altitude experts I talked with after Tom's passing insisted that that sort of response is extremely rare, and highly unusual with someone that has not had a prior history or is not showing other more obvious signs first. Maybe lightning strikes in the same place twice . . . but I don't pass this off lightly, and I'm still trying to hold to what the experts' opinions are and not give in to emotional panic, as chilled as I feel about it. I still spend nights at altitude with partners, but I don't sleep too soundly as I know that I am more concerned about the 'what-ifs' about them and altitude than they are.
it's called private messages. everyone on SP has had to read all this stuff countless times it seems. if you really feel the need to justify your actions to some random person posting random comments, take it to PM. do it for the rest of us, please.
Cy Kaicener - Apr 1, 2012 9:39 am - Hasn't voted
AwesomeGreat photos Mark
PellucidWombat - Apr 3, 2012 1:52 am - Hasn't voted
Re: AwesomeThanks! One of the benefits of taking our time on the approach :-)
MICtilley - Jun 11, 2012 9:17 pm - Hasn't voted
GreatGreat TR! This route looks super fun! And way to go on pushing her up and over. Nobody wants to be the bad guy, but you clearly made the right decision!
PellucidWombat - Jun 22, 2012 12:13 pm - Hasn't voted
Sad NewsAn update that I feel deserves being added. Nick Hall, the climbing ranger who helped treat Nastia's AMS and assist her down the mountain, has just died on Mt Rainier while rescuing some climbers injured in a crevasse fall on the Emmons Glacier.
I can't quite put into words what I want to say or why I've added this, except to express my condolences over Nick's passing and my appreciation for all those who selflessly volunteer to go into harms way to help other climbers. May he rest in piece :-(
Silvia Mazzani - Jun 22, 2012 12:36 pm - Voted 10/10
Rainbow BridgeMay he go to Rainbow Bridge!
Congratulations for these awesome pictures and page.
Best regards.
silvia Mazzani
jacobsmith - Feb 1, 2013 2:37 am - Voted 10/10
WowAnd i thought i'd had an epic on that bitch of a mountain.
sickeningly enough, this almost makes me want to switch my spring plans from Liberty Ridge to Ptarmigan Ridge...
PellucidWombat - Mar 13, 2013 3:12 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Wowhahaha, it all depends on what type of fun you want.
asmrz - Feb 1, 2013 9:53 am - Voted 10/10
Great TRThanks Mark, wonderful report, very useful info on the route. You are right, Ptarmigan is the better route. Keep them coming.
Cheers and good climbing, Alois.
PellucidWombat - Mar 13, 2013 3:14 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Great TRFrom the vault! I forgot I had even posted this one on SP. It just sort of faded away . . . I'm glad you liked it, and I'm thinking of getting caught up on posting some more SP TRs later this year. Thanks, Alois.
Rocky Alps - Feb 1, 2013 5:00 pm - Voted 10/10
Good DecisionNice TR & photos! Sounds like you made the best choice by pushing on to a better spot to meet up with the rescuers. I can definitely relate to Anastasia when it comes to altitude having more of an effect on me at some times than at others. Glad you both made it down safely.
PellucidWombat - Mar 13, 2013 3:16 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Good DecisionYeah, I felt pretty lousy about dragging things on as I did rather than going down or stopping, but at least the rescuers agreed that our course of action was the best one. Lots of 'what ifs' in that one, and you can't be prepared for everything.
alpinedon - Feb 2, 2013 12:19 am - Voted 10/10
Great TRMan, that really had me going. So scary. Glad things turned out alright. You guys were obviously very prepared and you kept your wits about you. Great job, great trip report.
LuminousAphid - May 14, 2013 11:52 am - Hasn't voted
Read your front-page report...and now this one after mrchad pointed out that you had another incident in the comments there.
You might think about your pace on the mountain and how it relates to your partner's pace, stamina, etc. One thing I see in common after reading both reports (besides both being nearly or truly disastrous) is that you seem very strong willed, and maybe you are pushing your partner faster and harder than they should be pushed. I have been in the partner end of this situation, and gotten sick at low altitude by going too fast and being too proud to speak up and request rests early on; you may be feeling great, but my guess is that she was feeling pretty bad long before you even noticed.
There's my 2 cents, your decision making after the fact was still great though and like others have said, you were well-prepared when things did go wrong, which is sometimes all you can do. I would start to think about prevention though if I were you, since this has happened at least twice to your partner on two different mountains at comparatively modest altitudes.
PellucidWombat - Jun 3, 2013 2:07 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Read your front-page reportThe problem here, and maybe it doesn't really come through, is that I did NOT start pushing Nastia until after (IMO) it was safer to get over to the Emmons Glacier than to stop, or retreat into dangerous and more isolated terrain. We spent 2 nights acclimatizing and her issues came on at 12,000 ft - VERY unusual. Liberty Ridge, we were prepared for 5 days while planning for 3, and we came down just fine in 4 days with both of us completely fine. Tom was FAR stronger than me. Any sense you have of me 'pushing partners' here must either be from a casual reading, or perhaps I didn't emphasize certain details enough, or perhaps it is how Chad framed things for you. He has a personal vendetta against me and has had NO interest in any reasonable discussion with me (he sends me harassing e-mails from time to time without provocation).
Nick (the Rainier ranger who assisted us) agreed with me on this decision, which I was REALLY torn about. I asked them point blank if we should have attempted to reverse the route or stop earlier, as we had the means to do so, and I really wondered if I had some major oversight there. If anyone would have good reason to conservatively tell me I screwed up, it would have been Nick, but he insisted this was one of those 's#it happens' situations and we did things about as well as they could have been done. He climbed with Nastia after this trip, and so did Vitaliy M(usiyenko) and many others, even with this event, which really was more Nastia's problem than mine (apart from me making her well-being my problem when it came to light that she was having more of a problem than she was admitting to). I am wary of climbing with Nastia, but still do, and I seem to be far more concerned about her at altitude than she is.
On the ascent I repeatedly asked her about how she was feeling, especially about altitude as she was moving slow, but on most of my mountain outings, my partners are almost always moving slower. I have been with enough slower partners that it is really hard to tell if they are less fit, having a bad day, or suffering from AMS, especially if they deny altitude sickness and do not show outward signs of AMS beyond the fatigue that is normal from thinner air and high physical exertion. Considering Nastia had been to the summit of Rainier multiple times before, and above 14,000 ft elsewhere, I had a reasonable reason to believe her history at altitude and her self-awareness about it.
I regularly run up to 13k-14k for climbs here in CA in less than 24 hrs with partners (several times a month from may through October). Honestly, her breakdown at 12,000 ft after spending 2 nights acclimatizing has me EXTREMELY disconcerted about these things, but the high altitude experts I talked with after Tom's passing insisted that that sort of response is extremely rare, and highly unusual with someone that has not had a prior history or is not showing other more obvious signs first. Maybe lightning strikes in the same place twice . . . but I don't pass this off lightly, and I'm still trying to hold to what the experts' opinions are and not give in to emotional panic, as chilled as I feel about it. I still spend nights at altitude with partners, but I don't sleep too soundly as I know that I am more concerned about the 'what-ifs' about them and altitude than they are.
anita - Jun 3, 2013 10:52 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Read your front-page reportit's called private messages. everyone on SP has had to read all this stuff countless times it seems. if you really feel the need to justify your actions to some random person posting random comments, take it to PM. do it for the rest of us, please.