Tibetans protest in Lhasa against chinese occupation

[pijiu]

Tibetans - monks and lay people - have organised street protests in Lhasa : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7296041.stm. We can trust the chinese to violently crack down on them and try to avoid any of it filtering out of the country...

[Dan Shorb]

Thanks, pijiu, for the update. Are you there now or did you pick this up from an inquiry? I know in the Overland book and elsewhere, folks mention the anniversary creating crackdowns. Is this different this time? More serious?

[pijiu]

No I'm not in Tibet at the moment but I follow very closely what happens there. I'd rather read about some out-of-the-way, wind-swept mountain in the middle of nowhere, but saddly monks being beaten up and put in jail are a reality we can't shut out of our mind.

But I'm pretty sure that some SP members are in Tibet now and will keep us informed about what's going on.

[Corax]

i'm in lhasa. total chaos. curfew. i'll try to write a report of some sort later on. at the moment i have some more pressing issues to take care of, like getting out, into the safety of the mountains, instead of being kicked out of the country.

[Jerry L]

Hey,

I got an email last night from John Ackerly at the International Campaign for Tibet. He's wanting to talk with anyone that is there to get as much first hand information as possible. If it works, please give send him an email. He'd really appreciate it. Be safe. Thanks.

http://www.savetibet.org/

[funclimb]

Mar 19, 2008 2pm

I'm currently in Tibet at the moment and using this different summitpost "persona" because ...I want to make sure I get out of here okay and not stopped by the Chinese Officials.

My girlfriend and I arrived in Lhasa's train station on Mar 15 8pm. There were about a dozen travelers. We were all coralled into various hotels in the outskirts of Lhasa for "safety." Four of us (me and my g-friend from US, a Japanese girl, and a German girl) were sent to a hotel and were put on house arrest for 2 days. We started getting info about the riot since we were on the 36 hr train during the start of the riot and so did not get any news.

One thing for sure, the Chinese are keeping a very close watch over the situation -- in terms of international press. Chinese news CCTV9 (in English for international audience) is really painting a rosy picture of Chinese efforts -- how they used GREAT restraint, how they RESCUED people especially older folks and children, and how this whole violent riot was fueled by The Dalai Lama, etc. It's all propaganda, but anyone who's been in China for some time would know that this is typical Chinese news -- propaganda. Everything is "harmonious" in China.

On Monday, Mar 17, we were told to leave Tibet ASAP. Apparently, a lot foreigners left by train or plane, but there are still (even as of today) a handful of foreigners in Lhasa. We told them that we would leave ASAP. In the afternoon, we were able to walk around and easily passed checkpoints -- which shocked us. We were in the area where the rioting went on -- images are correct that stores were broken into, buildings on fire, etc...

The situation is calm somewhat but there are still pockets of "incidents", though this is NOT on the CCTV9 Chinese news. Just yesterday, there were incidents -- this may be rumor, but this info came from a Chinese person who is also traveling through Lhasa. 3 Chinese soldiers were killed by a Tibetan who was being harassed at a checkpoint. And a bomb in the west side of Lhasa went off - but no injuries.

My opinion: I think the initial peaceful demonstration got out of hand by younger Tibetans who were frustrated ....but I would even conjecture that Han Chinese undercover agents were also involved in inciting the violence. Dressed as a monk or a Tibetan, they fueled the violence. This allows the Chinese government to say "see how the Dalai Lama is trying to use violence to separate the peaceful and harmonious Tibetans from China?"

At any rate, we are trying to get out tomorrow to Nepal. We will see. As a foreigner, I don't feel that unsafe. It's mainly the uneasiness of the CHinese military presence that makes it uncomfortable -- sights of guns, heavily armored vehicles, etc... makes me uneasy.

Hope this helps.

PS: Internet is blocked for things about Tibet. BBC and VOA news are blocked. The link above is blocked. If anything, the most important thing I'd like to say is that ...be wary of the crap the Chinese Government is saying. They kicked out 12 Hong Kong journalist on the day the riot broke out. No other journalism goes on here except the CCTV9 government run news. It pisses me off that there's no third party involved in making a better assessment. Again, I keep thinking that the Chinese government was involved in this.

[Dan Shorb]

Hope the place chills out. thanks for the updates. good luck Janne and funclimb, etc.

[Jerry L]

I have attached a link below to assist anyone that may want to send an email to President Bush or to contact their senator or representative concerning the situation in Tibet. It certainly couldn't hurt. Thanks for the update.

http://support.savetibet.org/site/Messa ... lv_id=5821[/url]

[Robyandtobyinthecan]

My opinion: I think the initial peaceful demonstration got out of hand by younger Tibetans who were frustrated ....but I would even conjecture that Han Chinese undercover agents were also involved in inciting the violence. Dressed as a monk or a Tibetan, they fueled the violence. This allows the Chinese government to say "see how the Dalai Lama is trying to use violence to separate the peaceful and harmonious Tibetans from China?"

Very unlikely. The olympics in Beijing, the last thing China wants is problems with Tibet. Because they know that they can only lose that PR battle. Actually it's much more probable that the chinese are right. Attempt to "split Tibet from the motherland" by the "Dalai Lama Clique". No, with that I don't mean that the Dalai Lama personnally ordered Tibetans to start killing Han chinese (because that's what happened here, Tibetans killing Han chinese) but in the olympic year the Dalai Lama and Dharamsala obviously see a chance to get closer to their goal, officially autonomy. China has to be more careful in repressing protest than usual, having a olympic boycott would be a huge loss of face. So the initial demonstration by monks could definetly have been encouraged/organzied from outside.(Could have, not saying it's sure)

If anything, the most important thing I'd like to say is that ...be wary of the crap the Chinese Government is saying. They kicked out 12 Hong Kong journalist on the day the riot broke out. No other journalism goes on here except the CCTV9 government run news. It pisses me off that there's no third party involved in making a better assessment. Again, I keep thinking that the Chinese government was involved in this.

Definetly don't believe what the CN government is saying. But don't believe everything Dharamsala is saying either. Basically in Tibet you only have 2 news sources, one the chinese, the other the tibetans in exile. Both obviously aren't neutral. Be wary of both.


Good link for some history/background

http://ark.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/ft2199n7f4/


And a journalist for the economist is or was in Lhasa, blocked in China now, could stil read it a few days ago.

http://www.economist.com/

[Sam Roberts]

Here is our "most favored nation" in action. How in hell were they ever awarded the Olympics?

Lhasa protests

Mass arrests continued today as part of a rolling crackdown, with soldiers standing guard at main intersections checking the ID of passers by, and stopping and searching Tibetans in traditional clothes in particular. According to one reliable source: "Many soldiers have been storming into people's homes to make arrests, viciously beating them with batons and firing tear gas at people standing round watching."

The number of arrests could not be confirmed, although according to one reliable source, at least 600 people were arrested in Lhasa on Saturday (March 15), and at least 300 on Sunday. Last evening in Beijing, the Chinese official state media claimed that 105 Tibetans had handed themselves into the authorities. From Friday, March 14, onwards, the authorities canceled the prohibition on firing weapons. Despite Tibet Autonomous Region government chairman Jampa Phuntsog's statement that no shots had been fired, numerous eyewitness reports confirmed that troops fired at will, and an unknown number of Tibetans were killed. Reports that government hospitals were refusing to treat the wounded could not be confirmed.

[Sam Roberts]

Some foreigners have reported being forced to stay in their hotels under house arrest for a day, and then escorted out of the country. I have not read of any being taken to jail or beaten.

[Corax]

Well, I'm also on Tibet and I was in the middle of the riots.
I was there when they started and there was no attempt to make any peaceful demonstration. Iron bars, gasoline cannisters, rocks, knives etc were unpacked from backpacks and then it all went crazy from one second to the next.

If you think the Chinese government was in this you're as naive as a person can get. No need to comment that at all.

As far as I saw during the long time I was in the battle zone I saw NO monks.

3 Chinese soldiers were killed by a Tibetan who was being harassed at a checkpoint. And a bomb in the west side of Lhasa went off - but no injuries.

Bullshit!
Answer this: Why isn't this widely broadcasted then?
Wouldn't that be perfect evidence for the Chinese to show how the aggressive Tibetans attack the peace keepers?
More of those idiotic rumors around. Snipers killing innocents all over the place etc.
Get a grip.

Chinese news CCTV9 (in English for international audience) is really painting a rosy picture of Chinese efforts -- how they used GREAT restraint, how they RESCUED people especially older folks and children, and how this whole violent riot was fueled by The Dalai Lama, etc. It's all propaganda, but anyone who's been in China for some time would know that this is typical Chinese news -- propaganda. Everything is "harmonious" in China.

The Chinese army showed great restraint.
Period.
I was out watching triple rows of fully geared battle police, paramilitaries and elite soldiers blocking off the riot zones, not interfering at all. They waited, contained the situation in the already affected areas.
As for rescuing people from the over lit houses and from the mob on the street, anyone with a normal set of mind (regardless of ethnicity or background) helped out with this. The Han Chinese were the targets for the mob, but it all went completely out of hand and "the demonstration" became nothing but a "burn-and-destroy-anything-in-your-way-raid".
I saw Tibetan shop keepers desperately trying to defend themselves against the looting party and Chinese and Tibetans helping each other to survive fleeing over the roof tops and over fences being chased by fire and people with intents to harm anyone in their way.

The DL link is absurd of course.

I was never told to leave Lhasa. I talked to the authorities about this and they had received no order of that sort. What I did see was that Swiss and German news agencies for days spewed out this info.

The situation is basically back to normal now. The military presence will drop gradually.

I'm not pro-Chinese. Just reporting what I saw. I also have to add that I'm very disappointed of the western media. It gave a very lop sided picture of the whole event. Many blame the Xinhua, CCTV etc of being partial, with all right of course, but this time I'd say they are closest to the truth, or at least from what I saw.
Western media wants China bashing, stories that sell. I denied talking to any of them as they already knew what to write before they even talked to me.
Naive westerns, pro-Dharamsala propagandists are as blind or/and biased as the apparatus in Beijing.

Had enough of rumors, mis-directed frustration, actions that make a cause worse, lies, military, burnt out houses, people which wants opinions about all and everything.
Off to the mountains for some fresh air again.

[Corax]

"Our" wonderful media!
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2008 ... 557738.htm

[Dan Shorb]

Thanks for the perspective Janne. Oppression definitely sells in the western media. Good to hear you believe it'll chill out in a bit. Is it beginning to warm up over there yet?

[Sam Roberts]

As someone that was actually there, thanks for your views, Corax. It sounds like mob mentality took over as the rioting progressed. I'm not surprised to hear this, what with the animosity each side feels towards each other. In the 2 months that I was in Tibet last fall, the tension between the Chinese and the Tibetans was palpable.

You say the situation is basically back to normal now. Are journalists and tourists being allowed into Tibet? Also, are Tibetans not be subjected to unwarrented searches of their houses and persons? Just trying to separate fact from roumors!

Hope the air is still fresh in the mountains, and thanks again for providing your views!

Sam