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bad climbing partners

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bad climbing partners

Postby kylenicolls » Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:55 am

Curious about lessons leanred in shitty, idiot partners. I had one, luckily it was a rather minimally technical traverse for an over-night trip. I decided to let a friend of mine join in on the west side of Middle Sister. What a joke. I knew he was over-ambitions but didn't expect he'd completely disregard my judgement, plan, logic and precautions. He even invited his bud, wow.

Short story highlights. I was flat out arguing that we were not going up this steep 300' slope the night before (around 6700 ft, Camp Scott was it?). He played some passive BS and refused to talk for a bit, wandered in and out all night keeping Alex up most of the time, I had my own tent so I was lucky. Summit day he went ahead off on his own direction. We met at the top, luckily, then did his own thing on the way down after I specifically warned him against. Alex and I (3 of us total, they aren't on here) got back to camp expecting him to follow a half hour after based off last seeing him around 8k. An hour after with no show I grabbed my axe, helmet and pole and went looking. Also found that the 300' steeper snow slope (shortest way to the top of the plateau out of camp) had a fucking light stream running under it, that he failed to mention (it's totally awesome, we need to climb it!). Shortly after yelling his name, hear him, repeat several times, I spot him a little over a half mile from camp, over a few gulleys and the plateau that impaired visibility. Turns out he took a spill on the way down, cut himself somewhere unimportant (he didn't know where apparently) and screwed up his ankle. And was lost. Said he was about to go back uphill to our last tracks (he was about 1k ft low from them). Good thing he didn't because they wouldn't have been tracable from the warm sun. So we had to deal with him limping back to my truck for another 4-5 miles. Although he didn't ask, I gave him my poles and we took a little of his shit hanging off his pack to lighten his load so we could get back sooner. I dont know exactly what happened, he was probably fucking around, glissading with crampons on or something that I already advised against on multiple occasions.

Had complete disregard for safety in almost every respect. I am embarassed to say I took this guy out there, completely. I'm having little to nothing to do with this guy anymore. Even though he invited Alex without my permission, I was glad Alex came. I dont even want to post photo's because of how I felt the trip went overall. I have to say, though, I did learn a whole fuckload about having good parteners, even if it is only more of a traverse than a climb. Certainely the trip I least proud of.


Anyone have any other like experiences?
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Re: bad climbing partners

Postby MoapaPk » Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:42 pm

I understand you anger; but rarely is it beneficial to post your anger on-line. Your "friend" will likely find out about your complaints.
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Re: bad climbing partners

Postby jesu, joy of man's desiring » Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:08 pm

.


Well, now that u made this public may as well post some pics of this fascinating adventure.

Maybe yer brah there was on LSD or psilocybin mushrooms?




.
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Re: bad climbing partners

Postby sharperblue » Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:31 pm

Never understood the 'Hi I'm Bob; let's go climb something highly technical together!" mentality. My life (and theirs) is at stake; trust and competence must be earned and proven, respectively. An interview, then a test piece or two, then a more legitimate target. A little patience can save a lot of personality-fit frustration, or your life. Just to scream the blindingly obvious
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Re: bad climbing partners

Postby kylenicolls » Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:05 pm

Yeah, MoapaPk, you are probably right. I figure if he see's it from here regless on how much detail I give he will know so I dont care. After this stunt I lost respect for him as he showed he has absolutely none for me. Maybe later this week I will edit it down to cliff notes, depending how I feel about it.

Steve1215, the pictures are not all that interesting. It wasn't a technical climb. Normally I take 40-70 random pictures (probabilistically speaking some will be good, lol) but after the night there I only took a few more. Just didn't feel the same about wanting it documented because it is more of an embarassment to me.

Shaprerblue, that is exactly why this turned to be such a learning experience. As regretful as I am, I am glad it was this trip rather than any other I've been on.

I might put up a few of the mountains just to show what shape they are in, uploading to SP is a PITA.
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Re: bad climbing partners

Postby Kahuna » Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:31 pm

Hmmmm.... I have only done this "Blind Date" approach in pairing up with a climbing partner once in my 40 something years of playing at this game.

It was with the recently deceased Michael Ybarra. I am fortunate that it worked out to be not so bad. He persona struck me odd. Only because he was an intellect and I, well, I am just an old crotchity/persnickity super gung ho retired sailor that swears more than you all breath on a second by second basis.

Bottom line, I have spent some quality time with all my past and current partners prior to getting on anything that meant any kind of 100% commitment and trust on one another's all around abilities and character when shit hits the fan.

Hopefully this was a well lesson learned for you. Fortunately for you, it cost nothing other than an insulted ego, for all three of you.
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Re: bad climbing partners

Postby SeanReedy » Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:53 pm

I've been in a similar position. My friend was more fearless than me, but less experienced (not a safe mix) . I gave warnings based on stupid things I had done and learned from, but the warnings were ignored and my friend got to have his own experiences to learn from while I waited, unsure exactly where he was. I then helped him amble back to the truck on my poles, using my light, my food, and my water, in the dark. I didn't mind. He's fed me before. It was a fun day overall. Good memories. Good laughs. Nice pics of a beautiful day. There was some compromise/attention to my advice; he still swears we should have gone over the highest ridge and taken another trail back. Nevermind that would have put us 30 miles from the truck and required crossing steep snow (possibly ice) ill equipped. He's probably right that it would have worked out somehow, but we would have experienced more suffering, more risk, and put our wives through more worry getting back much later. There may have been some fungus involved. We survived our late teens and early twenties together, so adventure with some risk involved was not a new thing. We watch out for each other. Things have tamed with age. We don't mind rounding out each others adventures, but they happen less often. The kind of relationship we have doesn't make for safety being top priority, so high risk activities would be best done with someone else. He feels the same way about my driving even though I haven't approached reckless since my teens. Perspectives vary.

For some, experience is the only teacher and wisdom only comes with age. You are wise to avoid further danger, but how personally you take your friend's actions and respond to your friend are both your own choice. I'm not sure the tone and details chosen in your post will seem wise down the road, but feelings around that are up to you.
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Re: bad climbing partners

Postby jesu, joy of man's desiring » Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:24 am

kylenicolls wrote:So we had to deal with him limping back to my truck for another 4-5 miles. Although he didn't ask, I gave him my poles and we took a little of his shit hanging off his pack to lighten his load so we could get back sooner. I dont know exactly what happened, he was probably fucking around, glissading with crampons on or something that I already advised against on multiple occasions.



...that reminds me of Doug Scott "crawling" down the Ogre with two shattered legs


http://www.himalayanclub.org/journal/a-crawl-down-the-ogre/


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Re: bad climbing partners

Postby Kahuna » Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:34 am

Steve1215 wrote:...that reminds me of Doug Scott "crawling" down the Ogre with two shattered legs-


I do not believe that Doug ever thought of Chris as a bad climbing partner during nor after this historic incident.
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Re: bad climbing partners

Postby Sierra Ledge Rat » Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:13 pm

Unfortunately, "bad" climbing partners is something that everyone runs into. When you move into a new area it can be difficult to find a new partner, and you've got to run with a few before you find someone that "clicks."

The biggest lesson learned: you've got to meet over a beer (or several) to get to know each other's attitude, history and skills before you ever tie in with them.

In Colorado, I put up an advertisement for a climbing partner. I knew very quickly that I didn't like him. He said that he had climbed "every single peak" in Colorado. I was astonished, "Every single peak in Colorado?" He said, "Yup, every single peak in Colorado." I was impressed! "WOW! There must be THOUSANDS of peaks in Colorado!"

He gave me a puzzled look and responded, "No, there are only fifty four."

I knew right away that I wouldn't get along with this turd.

I had another another "bad partner" in Yosemite - we hooked up to do Quarter Dome. In the end, he couldn't keep up on the approach, I had to keep going down to carry his pack up to where I had stashed mine, and the next day he was too tired to climb. Glad we never got to the point where we actually tied in together.

-----

On the other hand... I've had some great partners that I've met on advertisement boards in climbing shops. Like "Buzz" in Colorado Springs, and my buddy Young Chu (owner of Mad Rock). Young and I have been climbing and scuba diving together for over 30 years.
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Re: bad climbing partners

Postby Vitaliy M. » Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:50 am

When you climb with someone you got to understand that they have their own "judgement, plan, logic and precautions." Before you plan a climb you have to go over the plan, comfort level, experience, fitness level, etc. If you don't, than blame yourself.
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Re: bad climbing partners

Postby lcarreau » Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:10 am

Sierra Ledge Rat wrote:Unfortunately, "bad" climbing partners is something that everyone runs into. When you move into a new area it can be difficult to find a new partner, and you've got to run with a few before you find someone that "clicks."

The biggest lesson learned: you've got to meet over a beer ....


:D -------- ONLY IN ARIZONA, if you don't drink a beer with them first .....

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Re: bad climbing partners

Postby kylenicolls » Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:00 am

Sierra Ledge Rat, interesting stories. Luckily this guy Is in very good shape. Better than me, runs a lot but he isn't use to carrying weight on his legs. I think him up most of the night jelley'd him out the next day. I will remember the thousand peaks comment, if I weighed what I knew in the same way it would have been me, myself and I.

Actually Vitality, I did do that. Topos, TH, poo bags, passes wake up time etc. Over about an hour the night before. He just had his own plan when he found mine was apparently not extreme enough. Or that's my best guess.

On the photos, ironically I dropped my computer and broke it. I think the HDD took a shit. Lol go figure. Figment of my imagination now and on.
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Re: bad climbing partners

Postby jesu, joy of man's desiring » Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:22 pm

-

my regular partner bailed so I once did a Grade VI with a guy I had only met the day before, though he spoke almost no English (he was French)

we had a few harsh words but got up the route smoothly enough, then, being French, he cooked us a great gourmet feast afterward

as long as strangers are safe and competent, no problem


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Re: bad climbing partners

Postby Bob Burd » Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:45 pm

You sound vaguely like this guy from New Zealand...
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