MoapaPk wrote:Well, so much for being self-righteous (for me). When I was walking around the block with my wife this evening, we passed a house where the dog is allowed to run around unleashed. The dog circled us nipping at our heels. After we passed the house and the dog was on the 5th pass, I roared at the dog, and it ran back.

Apparently the young girls at the house, who didn't actually see the incident, were convinced that I kicked the dog. They went inside (the oldest was about 9) and told their parents.

As we were walking up the road, this guy in a large penis-extender truck stopped and started shouting at me, saying he was going to beat the shit out of me, kill me (in front of two witnesses) because I had kicked his dog. I told him I hadn't kicked the dog, just roared at it. He said I was calling his girls liars. I tried to be as calm as I could be, repeating that I hadn't kicked the dog. His wife was with him, going on this rant about calling the humane society to report me for animal cruelty. The guy called me old man, and said he didn't care how old I was, he was going to beat the shit out of me.

The guy got out of the car, not wearing a shirt, big tattoo on his arm, and I realized he was completely hairless and without any muscular definition. He seemed to think that I should be impressed by his tattoo and smooth, fatty physique. He demanded I admit kicking the dog, which I wouldn't do, and he got back in the truck. He kept saying he was going to kill me. So I walked up to the truck, put my hands on the window, and said, "you know, you may be younger, but you don't look very strong." This infuriated him, so he got out of the truck. I just got in a typical defensive karate pose (though it has really been 36 years), and he rushed back in the truck with a hail of obscenities. His wife then said, "my husband just had a heart attack, and I work for an attorney." So suddenly they felt I was threatening the nutball husband; this was the new angle. Much legal action was threatened over an incident that never happened.

He drove off, the witnesses started breathing, and one said, "why didn't you just point out that his dog is supposed to be on a leash?" Duh. It's hard to be Winston Churchill when a maniac is screaming at you.

Now I'm left with the adrenaline of the incident.

lol, damn, finally, a "fellow felon" on SP..........I get in these red neck tiffs all the time....it follows the exact same pattern, big tough guy (but big=fat), then the health problems become the excuse, then "my 2nd cousion is an attorney"....god, that was good....Moapa, what are doing going around kicking dogs, little kids, old ladies and the like? You should be locked up. Hillarous.

MoapaPk wrote:Well, so much for being self-righteous (for me). When I was walking around the block with my wife this evening, we passed a house where the dog is allowed to run around unleashed. The dog circled us nipping at our heels. After we passed the house and the dog was on the 5th pass, I roared at the dog, and it ran back.

Jesus. Sometimes when I'm jogging I carry small rocks in my pocket for just such an encounter. My father-in-law has been bitten by off-leash dogs twice. Both times the owner was close enough to say, "oh, don't worry, he won't bite."

Great story, Moapa!

MoapaPk wrote:Well, so much for being self-righteous (for me). When I was walking around the block with my wife this evening, we passed a house where the dog is allowed to run around unleashed. The dog circled us nipping at our heels. After we passed the house and the dog was on the 5th pass, I roared at the dog, and it ran back.

Apparently the young girls at the house, who didn't actually see the incident, were convinced that I kicked the dog. They went inside (the oldest was about 9) and told their parents.

As we were walking up the road, this guy in a large penis-extender truck stopped and started shouting at me, saying he was going to beat the shit out of me, kill me (in front of two witnesses) because I had kicked his dog. I told him I hadn't kicked the dog, just roared at it. He said I was calling his girls liars. I tried to be as calm as I could be, repeating that I hadn't kicked the dog. His wife was with him, going on this rant about calling the humane society to report me for animal cruelty. The guy called me old man, and said he didn't care how old I was, he was going to beat the shit out of me.

The guy got out of the car, not wearing a shirt, big tattoo on his arm, and I realized he was completely hairless and without any muscular definition. He seemed to think that I should be impressed by his tattoo and smooth, fatty physique. He demanded I admit kicking the dog, which I wouldn't do, and he got back in the truck. He kept saying he was going to kill me. So I walked up to the truck, put my hands on the window, and said, "you know, you may be younger, but you don't look very strong." This infuriated him, so he got out of the truck. I just got in a typical defensive karate pose (though it has really been 36 years), and he rushed back in the truck with a hail of obscenities. His wife then said, "my husband just had a heart attack, and I work for an attorney." So suddenly they felt I was threatening the nutball husband; this was the new angle. Much legal action was threatened over an incident that never happened.

He drove off, the witnesses started breathing, and one said, "why didn't you just point out that his dog is supposed to be on a leash?" Duh. It's hard to be Winston Churchill when a maniac is screaming at you.

Now I'm left with the adrenaline of the incident.

Where does this guy live? I want to go kick his dog.

Excellent story, Moapapk! Great details, especially of that tatooed moron and his idiotic wife. Jeez! Classic. Careful, though, for you never know what these wingnuts might be packing. Good job.

Here's some solid advice about dealing with rednecks from someone who grew up with them (and, perhaps, despite her best efforts to the contrary, still is a bit of one): Don't bring a rock to a gun fight.

dskoon wrote:Excellent story, Moapapk! Great details, especially of that tatooed moron and his idiotic wife. Jeez! Classic. Careful, though, for you never know what these wingnuts might be packing. Good job.

My thoughts exactly. I really wish this had never happened, but it did. These people are clearly on the edge and very self-righteous, used to "winning" by bluffing and intimidation. The kids probably saw the dog run back squealing, and assumed I MUST have done something physical.

Gary Schenk wrote:

fowweezer wrote:I have been lectured by people on some of these trails to "put my dog on a leash" when it is an area that allows off-leash dogs. I usually tell them to fuck off and correct their view of the law in the area.....because usually they're acting like ass holes.

Not everyone loves dogs. Especially some children can be very intimidated by them. Some don't care for dogs running up to them and slobbering on them, or trying to sneak their lunch.

I'm a fan of dogs, too, but leashes, like fences, make good neighbors.

Very true. Always good to think of the other person's perspective.

MoapaPk wrote:My thoughts exactly. I really wish this had never happened, but it did. These people are clearly on the edge and very self-righteous, used to "winning" by bluffing and intimidation. The kids probably saw the dog run back squealing, and assumed I MUST have done something physical.

I know how you feel and that you probably went through it in your mind a few times as to what you could have done different to avoid it...what you could have said differently, etc. But the problem today, seriously, is that too few in American society do stand up for what is right. That is how dudes like this are created, how they grow, how they eventually live as adults. They bluff and bully their way around society and normally get rewarded in some mental and emotional way that makes them feel good about themselves. The only way folks like this even remotely consider an attitude adjustment if is they run into a brick wall a time or two. I know my wife would rather I quit serving as that brick wall at my age, but my main solace about the glass being half full vs half empty in these situations is that the individual confronted might think twice about the next time whether he wants to exit that truck or not. Small victory I know, but you might actually save someone else a bit of worry and frustration in the end, not to mention, they might even keep the dog on their property for a bit, but I realize that is a stretch. Last guy I put in the hospital, I truly felt horrible about it afterwards, of course...and not just because I had to endure a visit by the sheriff's office in Washoe County which was embarrassing enough....but for the dude himself....however, I have been told by more than one mutual friend that it changed the mans life....for the good I hope. I know he never pursued me for the medical bills, so maybe it did.

Gary Schenk wrote:

fowweezer wrote:I have been lectured by people on some of these trails to "put my dog on a leash" when it is an area that allows off-leash dogs. I usually tell them to fuck off and correct their view of the law in the area.....because usually they're acting like ass holes.

Not everyone loves dogs. Especially some children can be very intimidated by them. Some don't care for dogs running up to them and slobbering on them, or trying to sneak their lunch.

I'm a fan of dogs, too, but leashes, like fences, make good neighbors.

Yes, exactly. If you're female (sorry, guys; I discriminate), do I get to run up and stick my nose in your crotch and lick and slobber all over your legs? Ok, didn't think so. Well, that's about how I feel about your goddamn dog doing that to me.

Sorry, couldn't resist posting this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXn2QVipK2o

I just adopted a dog for the first time this week. And my perspective has shifted wildly over the years so I feel like I can stand in many of these shoes.

When I was a kid I was afraid of dogs. A lot of people had large dogs that loved to jump on new visitors. Really scary as a kid. I'm under the impression that in most cases it is just poor training.

When I lived in Santa Barbara, a lot of people would take their dogs all kinds of places they aren't supposed to go. A weird sense of entitlement to it there. Buildings at UCSB often had (somewhat old) No Dogs signs on the doors, and professors would waltz right in and take them to their offices, even though the policy still stands! Didn't bother me because of the dogs or the policy itself so much as the lack of professionalism displayed. And, I really can't stand people that carry little toy dogs around in hand bags. Just seems dumb as hell to me.

But, as many of these stories indicate, so much just comes down to the owners. Both Moapa and Dow's stories were horrifying, and I would have felt much the same (though perhaps my actions would be more timid). Some of the rules and regulations make a lot of sense, as with the preserves, and general leash laws in a urban / suburban setting. However it seems that many of the regulations exist not because of what dogs may or may not do, but as more of a fail-safe check against bad training, incompetent owners, and poor attitudes.

Which to me is really sad and frustrating because, now that I'm doing all this research for our new pup, I'm finding what you can and can't do can be awful complicated. On top of that, the jerks that get stricter rules enforced are the same ones that will be the first to say "eff that" and let themselves and their dog create a compromised situation. Starting to sound a lot like climbing ethics and access issues, huh?

If there were a simple way to evaluate the level of control someone has over their dog and level of respect for sensible regulations, you might be able to create a licensing system that would give *responsible* dogs and their owners a lot more freedom. Unfortunately, something like that would also be an implementation disaster and probably seen as an unwarranted intrusion on "freedom".

So I'm for the rules, as long as the sensibility of them can be evaluated, and I've seen enough bad dog owners first hand to despise them. It would be nice to be able to do thinks like take transit with a well-behaved dog off-peak. I see people do it, but I know its verboten. When you get to the wildlife boundaries, its a fine like. I hope to be very responsible, but wonder when I'll bend the rules.
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p.s. as far as Dow's Elk, I'm pretty sure that could be construed as Coursing if the owner made no attempt to stop them. and I'm pretty sure coursing is illegal most places with an occasional exception for Hare.

I really love dogs. I would have one now, except it would be cruel, as a dog would suffer a lot when I left town for a week. The cat is much more able to take the separation.

I have absolutely no doubt that the problems generally lie with the owners. I've seen many sweet pit bulls; but the average owner seems to be a moron who will attack-train the dog.

MoapaPk wrote:I really love dogs. I would have one now, except it would be cruel, as a dog would suffer a lot when I left town for a week. The cat is much more able to take the separation.

Smart man. It is the same responsibility as a kid, I have raised both. If you really do love your companion, you tend not to want to leave them with anyone but your significant other. Most do suffer separation anxiety. My wife has horses, even a much bigger commitment, so she is pretty well planted unless a horse trailer is involved so it happens to work for us. If you like to travel via airplane or internationally, a dog is not for you.

Our angels are used to traveling with us on leash and are a joy to share the backcountry with. I regret that there are so many lazy, irresponsible dog owners out there to give "dog owner" a bad name. Unless a dog is on 100% reliable, push-button voice command, it's best for the dog, the owner, other trail users and wildlife that the dog be leashed. Most folks who think their dog is under voice control are delusional on this matter, right up to the point that their critter chases elk or attacks one of our leashed dogs (a painfully frequent occurrence). Don't even get me started on the people whose off-leash, no voice command dogs run off and starve in the Colorado wilderness or get flattened by a semi on I-70... I'm all for voice command when it works, but find only a small sliver of human-canine combos are truly capable of pulling it off. For our pack, the leash is the tool of choice in the mountains.