climberska wrote:I can't guarantee we'll be climbing legally since I'm not too familiar with the permit process. Hope we don't get thrown into prison or shot for climbing illegally if we can't get a permit.

My fee for your training and our summit attempt: $500,000 up front, $250,000 1 week prior to departure and $250,000 when we return. $1,000,000 total. You have to provide your own gear, food, travel expenses, tickets, climbing permits, and if we have to use other guides that too. I'm expensive but I'll work hard. Highest I've been? Between 18 and 19,000 feet.

Let me know if you are interested. I'll be honest: you could get a guide service like alpine ascents international or mountain madness or Dan Mazur or someone for a lot less money and with a lot higher chance of success, but I need to fund my retirement and I believe in going for the gusto.

No offense, but you do not sound like the most scrupulous of entrepreneurs. Personally and professionally, I do everything by the book WITHIN THE CODE OF ETHICS and your idea of climbing without a permit puts my family in immediate danger and is patently illegal. Piggy-backing on the ropes is a grey area I might tread in, but criminal trespass is one in which I will not.

Secondly, your fee is outrageous. My friend, I am wealthy but not senile. So far the honest individuals on this internet chat room have quoted an asking price of around 70,000 USD for a guided tour, a figure I can probably work down to about 45,000 to 50,000 USD. This is a serious personal investment that will elevate me to the top of the pack, you sound like a liability.

Feel. Sense. Act,

Mel

Mammoth Mtn? A 12k' ski resort? pffffffffft! And Trabuco Canyon? Ramona Trail? COME ON!!! And your definition of "avid mountaineer" is what.......?
Pipe dream Mel unless you get your ass on some serious mountains for the next couple of years. PLEASE don't drag your innocent son and wife with you!

I can't wait to see how this joke pans out! tee hee

jfox wrote:I don't know anything about Mammoth Mountain

It's a ski hill - Mammoth is also known as the northernmost suburb of Los Angeles

This is a most entertaining troll. Whichever SP regular is behind it deserves a medal

Honestly the responses on this board sometimes appall me. People have high aspirations and are totally serious and I think a lot of other people are just jealous they don't have the resources or initiative. I'll assume you're serious because I was probably in a similar situation.

Anyway, here is the low down:
-there are 2 routes, the south through nepal and the north through tibet
-the south is safer but permit is 10k compared to about 3k through the north
-since you're a newbie, forget about mounting your own expedition. it's way easier to just go with a guide service that takes care of everything, places like alpine ascents might cost you $35-$65k but if you go to the North side, you can go for $20k-30k which is pretty reasonable. Try 7summits for $27k or asian trekking for around $23k. They told me the Sherpas carry everything and the only thing you need to carry is a daypack with water and your oxygen tank. Once you join a group, they'll forward you a list of things to buy and you just buy them. It's that simple.
-every commerical expedition I've seen starts around April and climbing season is through May/June
-this is a long trip, 70 days of basically winter camping

Really there isn't too much to it if you have the money. Nobody is going to guarantee your safety or success but it's pretty likely as the routes are non-technical. You have professionals leading you the whole way tied to you via a rope. All you have to do is put one foot in front of the other and follow the footprints, not freeze and not fall.

I was seriously considering going this route but I've caught the mountaineering bug. I've decided to climb some 20k peaks this summer then climb an easier 8000m peak in Sept without oxygen to gain some experience. I'm still undecided whether to attempt everest in April depending how much time I have off. I have also considered doing Broad Peak/K2 around the same time for a different experience. I think then I'll be in good shape to actually 'climb' everest with a minimal support team and maybe without oxygen and have a greater sense of accomplishment.

They landed a helicopter on everest 2 years ago. In 10 or so years they might have helicopter tours where you just land there. But to tell people you actually climbed Everest and what that means to you is something special.

I suggest you try actual mountain climbing through snow. Mt Shasta is easy access since you're in California and I encourage you try that maybe with a guide service to see how you like it. I'm going to Ecuador to climb some 20k peaks and they are pretty tame. One of my biggest concerns is the length of the expedition. I've certainly have never been away for more than a week in the backcountry

Mel_Torino wrote:

jfox wrote::shock: Geesh...will Everest be the first mountain you've ever climbed?

I'll say no thanks to the sarcasm young friend. In the first week of May we climbed Mammoth Mountain as one of my short term goals before the big one. FYI Mammoth is over 12,000 feet.

12,000! Well, you're ready for the big one now! All right, I'll take the bait and feed the discussion a bit more. I'd love to see your next interim goals towards your dream...

Mel_Torino wrote:Why not aim high? Why not go for the gold and attempt a summit?
I recently told an employee of mine, one who attempted to nay-say my dream, that life demands a daring spirit, something I doubt he possesses. While I am not glorifying the fact I do drive an M5 and he something more economical.

I gotta admit, this is a pretty good thread... the whole thing is so ridiculous, how can you resist participating in this one... the absurdly naive bravado, THE M5!!! Congrats on getting the response you searched for!

CharlesD wrote:No kidding? It's a small world. I've been an avid cardiac surgeon and alternative medicine enthusiast after watching "Surgery Saved My Life" on the Discovery Channel.

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!

ugh some people...

Anyway, let's look at it objectively. How do you gain your experience and what does it really get you.
1) You probably live in the lower 48. There are no mountains above 14k here. Sure you can climb Shasta, Rainer, the Cascades, etc all you want but you aren't getting any additional altitude experience without trips
2) People that climb big peaks are usually on an expedition. What are the dangers of a non technical climb? Getting lost, falling into crevasses, slipping and falling and lack of oxygen. Again you are on fixed ropes and tied to a rope member. You don't need to find your own way. You just look at the footprints in front of you and follow. Sure your guide might fall into a crevasse and you're useless but that just shows you experience isn't guaranteed safety.
3) I've talked to plenty of people and the experience comes from climbing mountains. Expeditions are the best way to gain this experience since you have someone to teach you the ropes over a very long time.

I talked extensively with the team leaders and they suggested you climb some 6000m peaks and you'll be in good shape for something like Cho Oyu which is an easier 8000m peak. Then seeing your performance at altitude, you should be good for Everest/K2. Doing the same mountain over and over again at 14k ft in your backyard in the US for years isn't going to get you very far no matter how many years of experience you have. Sure you can be a guide for that mountain but it won't prepare you any better for a 8000m peak. You need to actually get up and go somewhere high.

jschrock wrote:

harpner wrote:Honestly the responses on this board sometimes appall me. People have high aspirations and are totally serious and I think a lot of other people are just jealous they don't have the resources or initiative....

.....Really there isn't too much to it if you have the money....

...I have also considered doing Broad Peak/K2 around the same time for a different experience. I think then I'll be in good shape to actually 'climb' everest with a minimal support team and maybe without oxygen and have a greater sense of accomplishment...

ooooo . a TAG team trollllllll. real nice...very rare...
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lol...really...i'm sorry... that was an a-hole comment...and obnoxious...i take it back...i just couldn't resist...

i'll go away now. honestly good luck to both of you. as you gain experience I am sure you will start to understand what is making most of us react the way we are...maybe you'll turn into a-holes too.

Welcome to the club...enjoy the next few years of gaining experience.......or further masterfully done trolling...whichever the case may be...

I'm waiting for the punchline........................

I have virtually no experience, but have done enough research to haver reasonably realistic goals. Is this actually a joke? Its hard to tell . Harpner, you're considering K2? I hope you guys are joking.

Mel_Torino wrote:No offense, but you do not sound like the most scrupulous of entrepreneurs. Personally and professionally, I do everything by the book WITHIN THE CODE OF ETHICS

Well, part of that CODE OF ETHICS is to not get in over your head and endanger everyone around you. This is part of the reason I will never climb Everest; too many people with more money than taste think they can just buy their way up it without paying their dues.

Climb a few more mountains. Come back in 5 years if you still want to climb Everest. You'll find us more civil then.

harpner wrote:Honestly the responses on this board sometimes appall me. People have high aspirations and are totally serious and I think a lot of other people are just jealous they don't have the resources or initiative. I'll assume you're serious because I was probably in a similar situation.

Anyway, here is the low down:
-there are 2 routes, the south through nepal and the north through tibet
-the south is safer but permit is 10k compared to about 3k through the north
-since you're a newbie, forget about mounting your own expedition. it's way easier to just go with a guide service that takes care of everything, places like alpine ascents might cost you $35-$65k but if you go to the North side, you can go for $20k-30k which is pretty reasonable. Try 7summits for $27k or asian trekking for around $23k. They told me the Sherpas carry everything and the only thing you need to carry is a daypack with water and your oxygen tank. Once you join a group, they'll forward you a list of things to buy and you just buy them. It's that simple.
-every commerical expedition I've seen starts around April and climbing season is through May/June
-this is a long trip, 70 days of basically winter camping

Really there isn't too much to it if you have the money. Nobody is going to guarantee your safety or success but it's pretty likely as the routes are non-technical. You have professionals leading you the whole way tied to you via a rope. All you have to do is put one foot in front of the other and follow the footprints, not freeze and not fall.

I was seriously considering going this route but I've caught the mountaineering bug. I've decided to climb some 20k peaks this summer then climb an easier 8000m peak in Sept without oxygen to gain some experience. I'm still undecided whether to attempt everest in April depending how much time I have off. I have also considered doing Broad Peak/K2 around the same time for a different experience. I think then I'll be in good shape to actually 'climb' everest with a minimal support team and maybe without oxygen and have a greater sense of accomplishment.

They landed a helicopter on everest 2 years ago. In 10 or so years they might have helicopter tours where you just land there. But to tell people you actually climbed Everest and what that means to you is something special.

I suggest you try actual mountain climbing through snow. Mt Shasta is easy access since you're in California and I encourage you try that maybe with a guide service to see how you like it. I'm going to Ecuador to climb some 20k peaks and they are pretty tame. One of my biggest concerns is the length of the expedition. I've certainly have never been away for more than a week in the backcountry

Dear Mr. Harpner,

Greetings from a like minded adventurer. Thank you for taking the time to respond. It is gratifying to receive positive, informative feedback from an experienced climber who exalts highly the virtues of ambition, initiative, and courage. Some of us believe anything is possible, that the mind is infinite and without limit. Personally, the only motivation I need to reach the summit is my iPod and a lengthy Eagles playlist (Joking). Sadly though, the majority of our fellow human beings are content with the status quo, never venturing beyond their office cubicle. We who esteem Mother Earth, her magnificent peaks, bluffs, and precipices, must not dwell on the bucolic restrictions of the masses. Forgive me I ramble...

After considering your advice I think I have changed my strategy. I am going to take our group full force from the North Side, from Tibet, just like Russell Brice. While I do believe sherpas will be an asset, I don't want to depend on them exclusively. Too many of Brice's group, while well meaning, lacked the motivation to ascend past the Death Zone. Some were unprepared like Mogens Jensen who did not think things through and bring oxygen. I am relatively new to mountaineering, but to my good credit I have done enough research to know that liquid oxygen cannisters are required in case the air gets too thin.

This is a great opportunity for my son (he has just had his 15th bday) to build character before he leaves Fairmont. I want to get him up to ABC and pack him a good sized pack with lots of water, MRES, and oxygen for the trek up to North Col and then the peak. This is a bare bones trip, and I am going to limit them to one personal item only. We have gone on several rigorous expeditions along the Sierra Nevada in preparation for our expedition. During these I have asked my son and my wife to imagine that the intense heat is actually intense cold, thus training their minds to think like alpine climbers and build up a mental barrier against frost bite.

I think I will leave the helicopters to my day job. It would only mitigate the intense pride I know I will feel seeing all of us on the top of the world.

Yours,
Mel

Yes this is a serious endeavor. The team I am going with to do Cho Oyu tried K2 in 2007 but didn't reach the summit (did broad peak of course for acclimation then couldn't find good weather windows for k2). I realize if we go we probably won't reach it again but if we do it's a great accomplishment since less than 300 people have done it but more than 3000 people have done Everest. Again, these people are super experienced climbers and lead an expedition every year to an 8000m peak and I feel good being on their team.

cabouckaert1 wrote:I have virtually no experience, but have done enough research to haver reasonably realistic goals. Is this actually a joke? Its hard to tell . Harpner, you're considering K2? I hope you guys are joking.

I actually attempted K2 last year, but didn't make it either... to be honest, I grabbed a beer and never left the couch...but I put in a good attempt, I packed my 10 essentials and some MREs!!!