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Petzl Lynx on La Sportiva and Raichle: heel studs too wide?

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Re: Petzl Lynx on La Sportiva and Raichle: heel studs too wi

Postby Kahuna » Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:23 pm

Dane1 wrote:FWIW, I don't have specific crampons for specific boots. I simply take the time to fit my choice of crampon to the boot.



So are you stating that you actually change and alternate pons around on a specific boot?
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Re: Petzl Lynx on La Sportiva and Raichle: heel studs too wi

Postby Nitrox » Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:03 pm

A5RP wrote:
Dane1 wrote:FWIW, I don't have specific crampons for specific boots. I simply take the time to fit my choice of crampon to the boot.



So are you stating that you actually change and alternate pons around on a specific boot?


I'm not Dane and he can answer for himself but that is what I do. I have several different pairs of crampons that I swap around to fit my boot. As has been noted already, different size boots of the same make and model fit the same set of crampons differently. I have a few different sets of Petzl crampons (because that's what I like best) that I mix around until I get the fit I like best. Last year I climbed ice mostly in a pair of Nepal Evo's. I have tried BD, Grivel, and my standard Petzl. I have owned other crampons and all are gone except for Petzl and some CAMP stap-ons.

Everyone is getting there opinions in so here is mine (like it or not):
-I like Petzl and Grivel G20/22 front bails the best. Older BD bails are awful; clunky, too wide, and ridiculously flared. I have not tried the new BD bails. Grivel standard front bails are slightly less bad; the wire loops catch on everything and I don't like the wire spring on an impact device concept.
-I like the the heel piece from the Petzl Spirlock the best, on boots with a full radius heel welt it wraps around the boot and limits all lateral and for/aft movement. I also like the smaller adjustment of the Petzl crampons. BD rear automatic bails are probably the best among that style, their heel piece is functionally the same as Petzl. I like the concept of the Grivel heel stops but don't use their fronts so I don't use their rears either.
-On my Nepals and other LS boots I don't like how the crampons point in (all three manufacturers) and asymmetric center bars don't seem to fix it. I flipped my bars over and it cured the problem.
-On size 44 Nepal Evo's (same as Baturas) I use Vasaks/Dart/Dartwin with Spirlock heels and upside down center bars. They fit very well without any movement or rattling.

There are too many boot/crampon styles and sizes to say all models and sizes of one boot brand works great with all crampons from one crampon manufacturer. It is my experience that the opposite of that is true. Buy boots that fit you like a glove, then buy the crampons that fit that boot best...or mix and match them until you get the best fit and combination of performance and features.

Edited for clarity and grammar.
Last edited by Nitrox on Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:32 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Petzl Lynx on La Sportiva and Raichle: heel studs too wi

Postby Ben Beckerich » Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:07 pm

Dane1 wrote:Cold Thistle hammers?

As the web site says, they are $60 each.

http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2012/10 ... mmers.html



Ben B wrote:Your differing doesn't change the slop ass fit between Sportiva boots and BD pons.


Well pardon me Ben. Forgot who's nonsense I was quoting there.

But glad you have joined the party and actually noticed how different crampons fit.
But save your preaching to the choir will ya. Your sarcasm is touching though.

But please enlighten us on the actual boot size, actual boot model and actual crampon that gives you a "slop ass fit?
I'm pretty curious having climbed a lot WI5 in those combos (with the original big bail) and not lost a crampon or died yet.
And I am just the tip of the iceberg on real world use. Colin Haley seems to do will with those same combos and the original bigger front bail.

As I said I have owned multiple La Sportiva boots and multiple BD crampons. Easy enough to make any of them fit better if they don't fit well enough already. Issues on the really tiny boots (38 or so down) and some issues on the really big boots. (47 up) You fix that by ordering the newest BD bail if you have a problem. Where do you think the idea of that betetr bail design came from, at least in part?[/b] The old style, bigger (used now for more than a decade) bail doesn't fit the newest low profile boots the best. Awesome on palstic though. But there are worse examples. I prefer to just simplfy things and use a Petzl bail on my BDs. Just as many others are doing now. Petzl? Never seen a problem fitting La Sportiva boot on Petzl crampons..as in ZERO, none. Although I do prefer a BD rear lever. I'd also not be surprised if my definition of "fitting" is a lot more definative and precise than yours.


Climbing is truly vanity, for some.

All your self-proclaimed experience and knowledge goes completely to waste when nobody can trust what you say. The way you deliver your 'help' in response to peoples' questions leads one to believe you care way more about one-upping and looking like you're knowledgeable than actually answering the question. Drop some big names (apparently- I don't usually have a clue who any of those people are, nor care), claim to have done it/used it on Wi5, and generally behave as though everything you say should be the final word... The Dane Method.

You're not trying to be helpful, you're trying to look good.

In my opinion, anyway... could just be more nonsense from Ben B.

See you up there,

-Ben
where am i going... and why am i in this handbasket?
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Re: Petzl Lynx on La Sportiva and Raichle: heel studs too wi

Postby Kahuna » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:22 pm

Actually Ben, I'd much prefer to tie into a rope and get on some obscure "thang" with you, than I would with the likes of Dane.

Why?

Cus I think you are right...

Drop some big names, claim to have done it/used it on Wi5, and generally behave as though everything you say should be the final word... The Dane Method.


I spent an entire hour last night going through Danes blog and could not find one photo of "Dane" proper actually on any WI5 or "Mixed" line. They are all of them "big names" you stated.

And the deal I do not get is, who the hell has the money to purchase four or five different pairs of pons in order to make a set up that will fit a certain type/make boot?

Wow! One is looking at one expensive pair of pons... $800-1000.00. Must be the same dudes that can afford to pay 120.00 for a pair of hammers that one can make themselves for no more than $25.00 for a set.


Buy boots that fit you like a glove, then buy the crampons that fit that boot best...


The simplist and most realistic solution imo.
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Re: Petzl Lynx on La Sportiva and Raichle: heel studs too wi

Postby Dane1 » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:31 pm

The blog is about the stoke world wide and gear. it is intentionally not about me past how that gear works for me personally. I use my own name on the Internet and am not bashful with my opinions based on experience.

The advice is free. The value up to you.

But good advice? How about this? Petzl bails are generally less that $20 a pair, new BD's should be something similar. Rear heel levers close to $25 a pair from BD iirc..may be a bit more. Grivel spare parts are available now from Liberty. But haven't checked there for G20 bails to replace curled bails with or their heel levers. All have 800 #s.
Last edited by Dane1 on Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Petzl Lynx on La Sportiva and Raichle: heel studs too wi

Postby Kahuna » Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:06 pm

But good advice? How about this? Petzl bails are generally less that $20 a pair, new BD's should be something similar. Rear heel levers close to $25 a pair from BD iirc..may be a bit more. Grivel spare parts are available now from Liberty. But haven't checked there for G20 bails to replace curled bails with or their heel levers. All have 800 #s.


Makes absolutely NO sense.

Someone such as the OP is gonna go out and buy a handful of spare parts from different manu's to see if it will work or not on his specific sized boots.

BTW, Grivel alone has 8 different type front bails and heel levers now for seven different series of pons. Five alone for the the four generations and styles of Rambos. As you know the older generation Rambo's were a good 10 mm thinner than the standard Grivel pon. Thus they had a thinner bail and heel levers. I have and used them all since they came out some 20 years ago.

Got the 2012 Liberty Catalog right here in front of me.
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Re: Petzl Lynx on La Sportiva and Raichle: heel studs too wi

Postby Dane1 » Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:30 pm

As I said...previous in this thread. If you have problems fittng a boot/crampons combination, a pair of BD heel pieces and a set of Petzl front bails will often solve the problem on any of the Grivel, BD or Petzl crampons.

Back to the OP's question one more time?

"My wife has Raichle's (don't know the type) (EU 38).
I have LS Batura 2.0's (EU size 45) and LS Nepal Trek EVO's (EU 45,5)."

This may help in the size 38s..may be not as the info is with La Spotiva size 38s.

http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2012/03 ... -from.html

The 45.5 Batura should be easy with any Petzl crampon.

"will the heel-lock keep our shoes in place? Even in tough terrain?"

All the flip lever heel pieces are the same on Petzl crampons. One size "fits" all. 47 to 37. Obviously ti isn't going to fit all of them perfectly. The more common the boot size *men's 43" for example the more likely the fit will be decent. But the heel levers and side guide wires will keep the crampons in place. Don't forget you have several holes on both the heel piece and the toe piece to adjust the bail and heel lever for better positioning and a better fit.

I don't have my Batura 2.0s here right now or I'd look closer. I posted a picture previous of Lynx/Ultra combo being held on with just the friction of the front bail and the rear heel posts. A perfect fit in the crampon world. Damien posted a picture of his Spaniks above. The Spanik has an abnormal amount of rocker in th toe and heel to help make it walk easier. Makes fitting crampons harder though. I have actually ground the sides of several pairs of Spantik soles down to make them small enough to get inside the heel guide posts of BD and Petzl crampons. Done the same on my Scarpa Ultras as well for the Petzls. Same guide posts that might be too wide for another boot are too narrow on these for the fit I want. The guide posts on a Petzl crampon don't fit like a pair of Grivels for example. The version is a side guide, where the Grivel is a end piece. Both work, and BD seems to be some where in between on my 45s. But no question it is a different design philosophy and seemingly differing priorities by the three major brands.

Image

If you look closely at the right boot and crampon pictured above you can see the rear of the boot actually over laps and sticks ou tthe back of the crampon. It was intentional to get the best crampon fit possible which left the inch + of rocker in the sole ignored on the fit.
Last edited by Dane1 on Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:57 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Petzl Lynx on La Sportiva and Raichle: heel studs too wi

Postby Nitrox » Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:22 pm

A5RP wrote:And the deal I do not get is, who the hell has the money to purchase four or five different pairs of pons in order to make a set up that will fit a certain type/make boot?

Wow! One is looking at one expensive pair of pons... $800-1000.00. Must be the same dudes that can afford to pay 120.00 for a pair of hammers that one can make themselves for no more than $25.00 for a set.



According to your posts you do. I'm not sure if you're shit talking me or Dane but I have less than $200 in three pairs of crampons. All three sets do something a little different and all three sets mix an match to get a perfect fit on all of the boots I own. If I took your advice I'd have a set of Rambos...and G12's...and G14's...and...well you get the point.

It seems as though you want to be as right about this as Dane and you're willing to show your ass the same way. Both of you have given your advice, give it a rest already.
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Re: Petzl Lynx on La Sportiva and Raichle: heel studs too wi

Postby Kahuna » Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:31 pm

I have less than $200 in three pairs of crampons


Math doesn't add up unless of course you purchased the three basic bodies used for pennies on the dollar.

It seems as though you want to be as right about this as Dane and you're willing to show your ass the same way.


You of course must be one of them folks that paid 120.00 for a pair of them hammers.

well you get the point


In the end, I could give a flying ratsass what you or anyone uses. Just pointing out the facts and the realities. Just like your $200 for three pairs of "new" pons. Bullshit!
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Re: Petzl Lynx on La Sportiva and Raichle: heel studs too wi

Postby Nitrox » Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:52 pm

A5RP wrote:
I have less than $200 in three pairs of crampons


Math doesn't add up unless of course you purchased the three basic bodies used for pennies on the dollar.

It seems as though you want to be as right about this as Dane and you're willing to show your ass the same way.


You of course must be one of them folks that paid 120.00 for a pair of them hammers.

well you get the point


In the end, I could give a flying ratsass what you or anyone uses. Just pointing out the facts and the realities. Just like your $200 for three pairs of "new" pons. Bullshit!


I didn't say new, you did. Not that it matters but I don't know Dane and haven't bought any of his hammers.

Anyhow, enjoy the thread, the bickering is lame.
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Re: Petzl Lynx on La Sportiva and Raichle: heel studs too wi

Postby Kahuna » Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:58 pm

I didn't say new.... you did


Precisely.

Thus the $$ I posted.

SO who is truly showing their ass.... NITROX nobody or who ever you are.
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Re: Petzl Lynx on La Sportiva and Raichle: heel studs too wi

Postby Dane1 » Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:16 am

Always fun to see where a Internet conversation will wander.
10 years ago a buddy, I've known since he was may be 16, "Big Wall Pete" Takeda, metioned he bought used crampons cheap at Neptunes and stripped them for the best parts. I thought he was nuts then...right up until I tried it myself.

I try to always give credit where it is due. Pete for sending me down that path for crampons bits and to Bjorn Elvind for helping redsign my $60 hammer for the better.

The real magic is sharing good info even if, on occasion, it falls on a deaf ear. After all it took me a season or two to fully appreciate Petes' original comments. Not the first time or the last I suspect.
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Re: Petzl Lynx on La Sportiva and Raichle: heel studs too wi

Postby dug » Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:31 am

I love this thread! I haven't logged in for months and I log in and wham, right back to the good ol'days.
Anyway, I've been known to buy old used crampons for parts. I've bought many trying to keep my 1st gen rambos (my favorites BTW) on the ice. The good news is they just keep getting cheaper. The bad news is its getting very difficult to find them.

Please continue the spray, I find it intoxicating. At least until the dipshit mods dump it.
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Re: Petzl Lynx on La Sportiva and Raichle: heel studs too wi

Postby Kahuna » Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:16 am

Yo DUG!

Ready for some Ice at you know where?
It will happen this year... trust me.



BTW: Got some spare 1st gen Rambo parts if you need some. You know where I live and let's get together soon!!!
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Re: Petzl Lynx on La Sportiva and Raichle: heel studs too wi

Postby dug » Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:30 am

Im in.
Edit:
Actually I only know about where you live.
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