triyoda wrote:From what I can gather it is is high snow year. I am going to be in the park, probably just after 4th of July. Was considering a through hike from Logan Pass to Goat Haunt. A couple of questions.

1. Any general advice on this route. Looks like 2 or 3 days. Is this realistic for a strong hiker? Any chance I should think about snow shoes for early July?

Logan Pass to Goat Haunt is a great 3 day hike with camps at Granite Park and Fifty Mountain. But I think early July is going to be way too early for the Highline. First the section from Logan Pass to Haystack Butte has several steep avalanche chutes that will still be holding snow. The garden hose section will most likely also be clogged with snow and impassable. Between Granite Park and the area below Ahern Pass is a big drift, called the Ahern Drift, on a cliff. The trail is cut through the cliff but snow usually blocks this drift through most of July. A lesser but still dangerous drift is further north at Cattle Queen Creek. Fifty Mountain camp and much of the trail near there will most likely still be under snow in early July.

2. I would plan to hitch a ride from Waterton back to Logan pass. Does this seem like it would be hard to do? Are there any other transport options? Hitching might be possible.

Never done it that way. There is a shuttle from Waterton to the Chief Mountain Customs. You can then walk across the border and catch the East side shuttle run by GPI or try hitching from the border. I'd leave my vehicle at St. Mary and take the park's free shuttle to Logan Pass to start your hike. Passports are a really good idea to get into Canada from Goat Haunt and back into the US at Chief Mtn Customs.

3. I would like to do Mt. Cleveland, as a side trip (I would not backpack over Mt. Cleveland with full backpack gear). Any thoughts on the two main routes. I would plan the Stoney Indian route, supposed to be easier to follow. Any general advice on routes for Mt. Cleveland, how hard are they to follow. Are there even faint herd paths?

Yes there are cow tracks on Cleveland. Stoney Indian Lake will most likely still be under snow and the traverse from the pass to Cleveland will also most likely be snow covered in places. Early July is too early for Cleveland, especially this year IMHO.

4. Would you expect to have problems getting a permit for this early in the season?

Well, I think the concept is "not recommended" at that time of year, especially this year. The only campsite that will probably be out of the snow would be Kootenai Lakes. The park does permit "winter camping" when the campsites are snowcovered but your problem will be the steep snow in the areas I mentioned.

If you can rethink your visit and delay to August or September you'll have a much better chance of realizing your objectives.

triyoda wrote:3. I would like to do Mt. Cleveland, as a side trip (I would not backpack over Mt. Cleveland with full backpack gear). Any thoughts on the two main routes. I would plan the Stoney Indian route, supposed to be easier to follow. Any general advice on routes for Mt. Cleveland, how hard are they to follow.

I'll echo EarMountain, July this year will be very challenging. If you decide to try Cleveland anyway, consider this route on Cleveland. Stoney Indian will almost assuredly be impassable. And this is the more direct route from the North anyway.

triyoda wrote:What do you mean by a drift?

I'm using Drift to mean an accumulation of snow. I gues that's not a technical term but that's what we call them out here. The Ahern Drift is a wind blown accumulation of snow that collects on the lee side of a ridge. Unfortunately there is a cliff there and the trail makes a descending traverse of the cliff on a ledge that was blasted out of the rock. The snow there is usually very steep and icy. It persists well into the summer. Trail crews will usually put in a tread across the drift by digging or sometimes dynamiting the snow. They usually don't get to this project until late in July after all the other problem snow areas have melted out.

Re: cleveland... The elk trails described in Edwards guides are intermittent and can be a tough slog especially with an overnight pack, although you can establish a great high camp if you are willing to thrash up there... i recall floundering in pretty much a straight bushwhack on the way up but we made decent time on the way down by committing to wet feet and wading a small stream that parallels the route. I am not a huge fan of bushwhqcking and would not necessarily recommend this route to you (why make something painful if there is a more enjoyable way up ie the stony Indian route). I really dunno about the snowpack issue, I would say check with the back country GNP office closer to your trip as to whether people have been getting up. If it looks iffy, there are tons of other great scrambles... Maybe you could try Mt. Jackson, alternatively, another one of the 10,000ers.

I think those red jammer bus tours go to waterton, it might be possible to jump on and get a drive right back to st. Mary but you'd prolly have to line that up in advance and meet the bus at a specific place and time...

I just spoke to a friend who summited Swiftcurrent and Grinnell from The Loop on Sunday. He tells me that there is still over 15 feet of snow in most areas. Some of the ridgelines where there is higher winds were mostly open. He said they rarely saw a trail.

Conclusion: Unless you are equipped for snow travel and know where you are ging it may not be a great idea to be up there. The previous comments regarding the dangers of the "garden hose" section and Ahern drift are quite accurrate. Last year the Highline Trail to Granite Park Chalet did not completely open until after July 15 (if my memory is correct). The trail north to 50 Mountain Camp was even later.

You may be better served to find options for the east side of the park i.e. Cut Bank or Two Medicine Valley for those early dates.

rebelgrizz wrote:Click on the link to see a helicopter fly-over photo of Logan Pass on June 4

You can't even make out the roadcut in some places... amazing.