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Suggestion: Get rid of POTD & POTW, show random picture

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Re: Suggestion: Get rid of POTD & POTW, show random picture

Postby Bob Sihler » Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:50 pm

Buz Groshong wrote:Atually, that sort of picture appearing on the first page may get people who would otherwise just look at pictures to look at the trip reports, mountain pages, etc. If they click on a strange picture to find out what it is about, they are likely to be led to the page that it is about and might learn a bit more about SP or a bit more about a mountain.


I don't like the idea of random selections, either, but Buz does make a good point.
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Re: Suggestion: Get rid of POTD & POTW, show random picture

Postby Bob Sihler » Wed Nov 17, 2010 8:00 pm

phlipdascrip wrote:Bob I like your idea but do you really want to take on that load of work? I would imagine you'd get tired of it sooner than later. And you'd be subject to complaints, bickering and bribery


Actually, if I really did limit things to new photos on new mountains, routes, trip reports, and areas, I don't think it would be that bad. Before going to bed, I would look through the day's new submissions, make the selections, and then post them the next morning.

Yeah, there would be gripes about favoritism and such, but they already go on, so it won't be that much of a change.

My worry would be the burnout factor, but if that started, then I could adjust the approach by narrowing the focus or changing pictures every two or three days instead of every day.

But I still prefer my idea about a self-updating POTH feature with some safeguards against abuse.
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Re: Suggestion: Get rid of POTD & POTW, show random picture

Postby chugach mtn boy » Wed Nov 17, 2010 8:49 pm

Bob Sihler wrote:
Buz Groshong wrote:Atually, that sort of picture appearing on the first page may get people who would otherwise just look at pictures to look at the trip reports, mountain pages, etc. If they click on a strange picture to find out what it is about, they are likely to be led to the page that it is about and might learn a bit more about SP or a bit more about a mountain.


I don't like the idea of random selections, either, but Buz does make a good point.


He does--maybe if you end up choosing photos to feature, you should occasionally pick one that is just weird or intriguing rather than "good." That might be fun and stimulate curiosity.

But I still think (being an optimistic guy) that you are smarter than a chimpanzee and so having you make selections will be better than a random choice.
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Re: Suggestion: Get rid of POTD & POTW, show random picture

Postby mrchad9 » Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:20 pm

Bob Sihler and just about everyone else in the world wrote:But I still prefer my idea
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Re: Suggestion: Get rid of POTD & POTW, show random picture

Postby CSUMarmot » Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:36 pm

mrchad9 wrote:
Bob Sihler and just about everyone else in the world wrote:But I still prefer my idea

That's the spirit!
Dammit kid get off mah lawn!!!
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Re: Suggestion: Get rid of POTD & POTW, show random picture

Postby SoCalHiker » Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:13 am

As far as I see it, if the POD is chosen solely based on votes, it will feature often times mediocre photos at best. In my opinion, the front page should feature the best SP has to offer. And since we call it "Photo of the day (week)" it should be very good in the the true photographic sense. It's not called "mountain of the day" or "route of the day". And as it stands now the featured POD often times lacks basic photographic quality, e.g. in terms of colors, saturation, exposure, sharpness, composition, uniqueness. If it's featured on the front page we should have very rigorous standards.

That's being said, the only way to meet those standards is to have some sort of review of last days' photos. A selection of several very good photos could be chosen, which could then be displayed on the frontpage for 1 or 2 hours each. Only one photo at a time (not all of them), so we don't need to create more space. To "ban" someone from getting POD again for a certain time is in my eyes not a good idea. It will eventually discourage that member to submit the best photos. But that should not be a problem if a broader selection of photos is showcased.
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Re: Suggestion: Get rid of POTD & POTW, show random picture

Postby mrchad9 » Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:19 am

I agree with most all of what you say SoCalHiker, but I think of it this way...

If you could ban someone from getting POTD day after day, and make it more of a monthly opportunity, I think that would largely break up the routine votes that most POTD photos would get. Most would not keep track if someone else's photo was eligible, and without as many routine votes more would be chosen on an up for grabs basis. I think the quality would increase significantly. Notice that if you look at the POTD album sorted by date, you see a lot of the same names over and over. But look at the first page by quality, and there many more unfamiliar folks. Afzal and some others are still there multiple times (but those photos are more than a month apart and that deserve to be there). And this isn't about Afzal at all, he just had the unfortunate coincidence of being on the front page when the discussion started.

Besides, if someone is submitting material for the ultimate objective of making POTD, and is discouraged by only being able to get 12 per year, that is pretty sad.
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Re: Suggestion: Get rid of POTD & POTW, show random picture

Postby mrchad9 » Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:30 am

I hope no one feels like they are being picked on with regards to this. So to be fair here are a few examples of subpar POTD. They are not all bad photos, some are nice even, but were certainly not the best of that day. I doubt anyone is blowing these up and hanging them in their living room. These are each from a different member who has had multiple POTDs within the past seven months, including one of mine. These members each have many very outstanding photos, but these are not among them.

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Re: Suggestion: Get rid of POTD & POTW, show random picture

Postby Bob Sihler » Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:36 am

SoCalHiker wrote:And as it stands now the featured POD often times lacks basic photographic quality, e.g. in terms of colors, saturation, exposure, sharpness, composition, uniqueness. If it's featured on the front page we should have very rigorous standards.

That's being said, the only way to meet those standards is to have some sort of review of last days' photos.


The problem with that is that there is widespread disagreement over what a good photograph is in context of this site's purpose.

If I were tasked with selecting the pictures, for example, I would look for "good" pictures that also have good captions and have some relevance to an informational page. Thus, some of the "best" pictures here in terms of technical quality would never be featured and some, but not all, of the names often seen on the front page would no longer appear.

Yet others might want to apply your criteria solely. Still others would favor climbing shots or route shots to take precedence. I think a nice wildflower shot can be relevant; others think such things are abominations.

The staff members don't have the time or the interest to communicate daily to mull over what are sometimes hundreds of photos being submitted on any given day. Thus, one person would have to choose, just as one person selects the trip reports and one person selects the featured mountain/route/area pages. My offer previously on this thread still stands if Matt is interested in it. If not, I hope he will go with an option that self-updates on an hourly or daily basis but which somehow ensures a minimum standard of quality while preventing the serial submitters and manipulators from being "overexposed." However, that doesn't sound like an easy stunt to pull off.

Or maybe the best thing to do is simply remove POTD and POTW and feature something else on the front page in their stead. The featured pages already have signature photos, usually nice ones, and though clicking on one takes you to the page, not the photo, you can still argue that photography is thus represented on the front page.

Or just do away with photo voting altogether.
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Re: Suggestion: Get rid of POTD & POTW, show random picture

Postby SoCalHiker » Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:59 am

Bob Sihler wrote:...


But if you select a panel of photos (maybe 10 or 15) you don't have to "mull" so long over picking the right one. You (or anybody else and some people) could pick several very good photos. And I think it would not take too long to select them.

If that is not doable and not preferred, I am all for removing POD or POW alltogether. The current practice does not do SP any justice.
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Re: Suggestion: Get rid of POTD & POTW, show random picture

Postby mrchad9 » Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:22 am

If someone wants to manually pic a POTD (I am still against that- I like the idea of more featured pages better- or the waiting time for multiple photos) then here is the link.

The best photo is almost always on this page, but it isn't always at the top left.

http://www.summitpost.org/object_list.p ... ct_3=score

I like Liba's entry today, but it is down in row 2. Looks like you have a shot at it for tomorrow SoCalHiker.

runawayreignbow has some nice entries too.
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Re: Suggestion: Get rid of POTD & POTW, show random picture

Postby lcarreau » Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:27 am

chugach mtn boy wrote:
But I still think (being an optimistic guy) that you are smarter than a chimpanzee...


"After I get outta here, I swear I'll strike up a deal on how to squeeze more votes out of ya."

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Re: Suggestion: Get rid of POTD & POTW, show random picture

Postby SoCalHiker » Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:01 am

mrchad9 wrote:If someone wants to manually pic a POTD (I am still against that- I like the idea of more featured pages better- or the waiting time for multiple photos) then here is the link.

The best photo is almost always on this page, but it isn't always at the top left.

http://www.summitpost.org/object_list.p ... ct_3=score

I like Liba's entry today, but it is down in row 2. Looks like you have a shot at it for tomorrow SoCalHiker.

runawayreignbow has some nice entries too.


...in my opinion that page prooves our point...

Also, there are many instances where the best photo is not on that page. E.g. often times a very good photo is submitted at the end of the day and hence does not gather many votes but may be in fact the bast of the day. That's why I don't think highest votes should be automatically POD (if we want to keep that anyways).
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Re: Suggestion: Get rid of POTD & POTW, show random picture

Postby Bob Sihler » Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:35 am

In the meantime, what about a thread to recommend certain pics? It could be cleaned daily to avoid confusion. We could set parameters about what kinds of pics to recommend, and interested members might have an easier time finding those harder-to-find candidates.

Any thoughts?
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Re: Suggestion: Get rid of POTD & POTW, show random picture

Postby SoCalHiker » Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:47 am

Bob Sihler wrote:In the meantime, what about a thread to recommend certain pics? It could be cleaned daily to avoid confusion. We could set parameters about what kinds of pics to recommend, and interested members might have an easier time finding those harder-to-find candidates.

Any thoughts?


sounds like worth a try...
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