HikeMan wrote:

Lolli wrote:Everything is hiking. Some treks are just a bit steeper than others.

I can't say I fully agree with that one. Although a good majority of stuff I can agree with, but once you get into the super steep stuff it becomes hands and feet rather than just feet, which at this point it's a climb.

Shhh .. we don't want to scare her before she comes over here !

I've enjoyed countless meals at the Whoa Nellie, but I must say that my veggie pizza Saturday afternoon was awful. Very disappointed.

Something I've always wondered...what the hell is trekking and how does it differ from hiking? To me it sounds like the name for hiking to hikers who want to sound like they're doing something cooler than hiking. At least they know they're not climbing I guess.

lcarreau wrote:But in "Climbing forums," does it really matter WHO you're talking to or about ???




That's why it always helps to have PICTURES to back up your claim - just like DMT and The
Chief !!!

Funny, I said something along these lines- taking pictures and proof and such, and was hit with some pretty hard hate. I guess the hardcore guys think pictures for proof is for pussies... which is ironic, because I'd consider The Chief to be pretty badass. (No, it was no one currently in this thread or mentioned in this thread who ripped me a new one.)

Back on to the topic- the hike vs climb argument is relative to many factors, as it's already been mentioned- what you're ascending, how you're ascending it, and who you're talking to. One person's hike is another person's climb, one man's climb is another man's crazy.

IIRC, The Chief said that anything above class 2 was not a hike, and gave some decent arguments.


Our local outdoor club calls anything that doesn't require ropes (for normal people) a "hike". But last weekend one of the participants told me this was not a "hike":

You can climb a mountain just like you climb a flight of stairs. I say if it’s a mountain you had to climb to get to the top! Congratulations!! Now you’re a mountaineer.

TheOrglingLlama wrote:

Just to bring this thread full circle...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlxzpWjM5Q8&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fyosemiter.com%2F194%2Fvideo%2Fcaptain-kirk-in-yosemite%2F&feature=player_embedded

Lolli wrote:To get to and from our tents here, was one of those which could be considered a bit steeper kind of trek:

Nice beach

Hard to say from this distance what route you took over that ridge. The talus / scree slopes were probably class 2. A lot of class 2 & 3 scrambling routes look pretty steep from far off.

One thing you soon learn in climbing is that from a distance everything looks steep. When you get up close, it appears to be less steep than it really is (foreshortening).

When people climb together, communication is paramount; the words they use need to mean the same things. You can call an apple a pear or a banana a peach, but if I say "off belay" I expect a very specific action and response

HikeMan wrote:

Lolli wrote:Trek = British English
Hike = American English

same thing.

From my experience a trek is longer, but I suppose that depends on your point of view of the word. Hey I use the word trek and I'm American!

A trek is multi-day, typically class-1, and covering a lot of distance.

If you simply use the word "trek" in place of the word "hike," you're British and wrong. If you use the word "trek" to describe a half-day hike, you're as wrong as driving on the left side of the road.

rhyang wrote:One thing you soon learn in climbing is that from a distance everything looks steep. When you get up close, it appears to be less steep than it really is (foreshortening).

So true! I noticed that the first time when looking at the couloir on the Whitney MR from Lone Pine. You're like: you need to go up THAT?!? Once at the bottom of the couloir, it's just a steep class 2.

This discussion of trek length is Boering.

Lolli wrote:So? They look like this.

You know what? I don't give a damn if it's class 2 or 3 or whatever.
It doesn't matter. It's just an ego thing. "I can climb so and so level".
I don't even keep track off which mountains I've climbed. Who cares?

I'm also quite aware of both the foreshortening effect and steepening effect. What you're trying to insinuate, is that the wall can't be all that steep.

I know what "off belay" means, but it has nothing to do with what's hiking and what's climbing. I consider everything hiking, sometimes I say I climb it, and it has no value to me, which word I use. You get up a mountain, in one way or another.

I don't much care to tell you what you should think Lolli. You may think it's about ego, but to me it's mostly about safety. If someone says to me such and such a climb is class 4, then I'm pretty sure I can do it solo. If they say it's 5.9, then maybe not without someone else leading. If it's class 2-3 then I can probably bring one of my newbie friends along and not worry about them being sketched out ..

If you do know what "off belay" means, then that is great. You've posted elsewhere on the CA forum that you've never climbed with ropes before, so I guess I assumed you were not familiar with the terminology. Yes, it's very important in climbing to know what these signals mean, because the lives of the climbers depend on it. If you haven't climbed before, and I get the impression you haven't, then you would not know that. Nothing wrong with that, but I like to communicate clearly. In climbing it's a life and death thing.

Like I said, you can call an apple a peach all you like

I'm shocked, shocked, shocked to find that ambiguous wording may give rise to heated exchanges on SP.

As I've said many times, I'm not a real climber. But on my hikes, I am very glad to have "real climbers" along -- that is, folks who regularly use ropes and artificial protection, and regularly route around marginal rock. I find that experienced trad climbers are much, much more cautious and careful with class 4 terrain, than many bold "hikers". They know how to put someone on belay quickly in sketchy spots, and are very wary of marginal routes. They tend to be the first people to shout "rock" when necessary.

It IS a matter of safety. Rhyang doesn't seem like an ego-type of guy.

Lolli wrote:"If you haven't climbed before, and I get the impression you haven't, then you would not know that. "
That's quite a stupid statement. You know better, and don't be so patronizing.
You're into roped climbing again. But you know, the thread is not about roped climbing.

And it's also plain silly to say it a safety thing, since we're not talking about roped climbing. But in order to make certain terminology important, one has to try to turn it into a roped climbing discussion.

I haven't climbed with ropes, which doesn't mean I haven't been present when it has been done.

Actually, I don't know better .. we have never met, and I don't file everything you write on SP into a little dossier So sue me ..

Roped or unroped isn't the point, I agree. What I'm saying is that knowing the level of difficulty of the climb, and your level of climbing ability is important. Communication among climbers is also important. The belay signal example is just one I could give.

A lot of folks who have never practiced at climbing with rope get pretty scared when the level of difficulty rises above class 2 or 3. Maybe not you of course. We were all beginners once .. some people never bother to progress beyond a certain level, and that's fine too .. everyone is at a different place in their lives. Other priorities in life you know ..

We should all laugh at ourselves more. Makes it easier on our egos when other people laugh at us