Hello everyone,

I'm fairly new to mountaineering and was wondering if if could get feedback on my workout plan for summiting Rainier in May 2015. It will be a guided climb and the company is RMI. Some quick background info - I'm in my late 20's and I live in the Toronto (Canada) area (flat lands). I've accomplished some fairly challenging physical events including many half-marathons and this year, a full marathon.

My plan consists of the following:

Strength: The program is Wendler's 5/3/1 - primary goal of the program is to build strength by lifting heavy. I've been doing his for 2 years.

Cardio: Running with an altitude mask. I run typically 45min-1.5 hours, alternating between just a simple jogging pace one day, intervals the other day. The altitude mask simulates 3000 ft (and keeps my face warm I the winter). Been doing this for many years.

Balance/Stretching: Yoga. Fairly new to this - so the game plan is to do it once a week.

On weekends, I have started going up north where we have ski resorts and just walking up/down the hills. The elevation gain is only 80-100 meters. Presently I can last about 2-2.5 hours of constant marching up and down. The goal is to be able to do it for 6-7 hours straight (Well... Few breaks here and there to refuel). I also walk the hills with a backpack loaded with approx 20 lbs of water. I'd like to up that eventually to 50-60 pounds.

I basically alternate strength and cardio daily. Friday is yoga. Weekends I'm climbing the hills up north. I try to reserve 2 days for rest. Essentially I am working out 5 times a week.

The reason I'm asking for feedback is because I'm new to mountaineering and am not sure if my training plan is adequate. I don't want to be the guy that causes a group to turn around or be forced to stay at base because I'm not in good shape to keep up. I've read around, found many new programs (eg Mountain Athlete - mtnathlete.com) for training, etc. The one advantage I believe I have is that majority of the activities above, I've been doing for some time and it works well for me. However it works well for the current activities I do - I haven't done an expedition before so I'm not sure how I will perform. I don't mind adopting a new program more geared towards mountaineering but that process is costly in terms of time and willpower. I figured it would be best to get opinions from others before I make any changes.

Thanks for your time!

With that and your marathon experience, you'll be fine. The only issue may be altitude sickness which physical fitness doesn't always prevent. Just acclimate well....the guides can give you all that info. Carry a heavy pack up and down hills. Physically you should be fine.

So, I've climbed Rainier once or twice (or a couple dozen times), so here are my two cents:

It sounds like a pretty solid plan to me. Strength, flexibility, cardio (LSD, intervals, tempo), and long days training in the hills with a heavy pack pretty much covers it. I really like that you are doing long, hard days on the weekends. I think that is really important. I'm not sure you need to train with a 60lb pack, but I know the guide services make you carry a lot of extra shit, so maybe 50lbs would be enough.

A couple of suggestions I might make would be to try running intervals on hills or stairs or a stair machine in the gym. I keep it simple - 90 seconds HARD effort, 3:30 easy for one rep. Do this 6 times working up to 9 times. Also, body weight exercises that recruit many muscles are better than traditional body building type exercises. Pull ups, muscle ups, dips, ring push ups are great.

If you haven't read it, you might find this article relevant: http://www.summitpost.org/so-you-want-t ... ier/507227

Your training routine is fine. I'd suggest wearing the pack and find some bleachers to walk up and down if your hills are not that steep. It will better work your quads.

Climbing Rainier by one of the standard routes is just walking slowly up a big pile of snow while tied to some other people. You'll be following a trench dug by scores of people each morning, and a guide is a waste of money. Cardiovascular-wise-speaking, it's way easier than a marathon.

The biggest unknown is how your body handles altitude. AFAIK it's not something you can train for or predict. Unfortunately, if you do Rainier the standard/guided way, you'll be camping near 10,000 feet, so if you're susceptible to altitude sickness, you'll probably get it. If I were you, I'd try to spend a few days living at high altitude and see what happens.

Ya, what they say. Have you done any 14ers? If you know how you handle altitude than you're more than ready. If you've been a person who lives a healthy lifestyle, get's out in the backcountry and exercises on a regular basis you can do almost any of the big, basic, hikes and climbs out there without "training" in my opinion. Not that training won't make things better.

ExcitableBoy wrote:I know the guide services make you carry a lot of extra shit, so maybe 50lbs would be enough.

What do they make you carry??

I thought the whole reason for guide service was the sherpas. What about the sherpas?

I believe you mean porters. Sherpa are an ethnic group in Nepal. Some Sherpa are mountain workers - of which some are porters, some cooks, some guides, etc.

Some guide services in the US I've noticed do offer their clients porters for an extra fee if they so desire. Some don't offer this either as far as I know. Outside of the US, I'm not sure how prevalent it is one way or the other (and whether local politics mandate it in some areas)

The 'extra' can often be shared community gear - tents, cooking, and so forth. As I recall RMI does specifically note for their Rainier climbs that everyone is expected to share in carrying some community gear in addition to their own.

Ben Beckerich wrote:

ExcitableBoy wrote:I know the guide services make you carry a lot of extra shit, so maybe 50lbs would be enough.

What do they make you carry??

I thought the whole reason for guide service was the sherpas. What about the sherpas?

RMI actually has in the past employed Sherpa guides.

The guide services have a long list of required gear, lots of extra clothing and what not. https://www.rmiguides.com/mt-rainier/4- ... mit-climb/ Look at the equipment tab.

Group gear like tents, ropes, and such are pre placed at the high camps.

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

As this is my first time climbing a 14er, you're all right that I won't know how my body will handle the altitude until I'm up there. Fortunately the trip is 5 days, 2 days is spent at Camp Muir acclimating. It'll be a good opportunity to adjust there. I fly GA aircrafts frequently at 9000 so the closest thing of feeling the effects of altitude is a feeling of dehydration & light headache. I don't really count this as experience but if anything, this is just a "taste" of what I could expect when I pass 10,000.

It sounds like a pretty solid plan to me. Strength, flexibility, cardio (LSD, intervals, tempo), and long days training in the hills with a heavy pack pretty much covers it. I really like that you are doing long, hard days on the weekends. I think that is really important. I'm not sure you need to train with a 60lb pack, but I know the guide services make you carry a lot of extra shit, so maybe 50lbs would be enough.

A couple of suggestions I might make would be to try running intervals on hills or stairs or a stair machine in the gym. I keep it simple - 90 seconds HARD effort, 3:30 easy for one rep. Do this 6 times working up to 9 times. Also, body weight exercises that recruit many muscles are better than traditional body building type exercises. Pull ups, muscle ups, dips, ring push ups are great.

Thanks for the suggestions - I'll do what I can to incorporate the sprint training on the hills (my legs are going to kill me). I'll be honest - my dream would be Denali and I read you carry 60-70 so I'm feeling a bit ambitious and figured I'd set that as the pack weight goal

You'll be following a trench dug by scores of people each morning, and a guide is a waste of money.

Alas - I know no one who is capable or interested in doing such a trip. It's also my first time so I figured it's safer to get the experience, skills and oversights from a guide. I hope one day I can climb without the need of guides.

cdnstig wrote:Thanks for the suggestions - I'll do what I can to incorporate the sprint training on the hills (my legs are going to kill me). I'll be honest - my dream would be Denali and I read you carry 60-70 so I'm feeling a bit ambitious and figured I'd set that as the pack weight goal

You'll be following a trench dug by scores of people each morning, and a guide is a waste of money.

IF the weather is perfect, snow conditions are perfect, and crevasses are both obvious and well bridged this may be the case. I think your plan to hire a guide service given your relative lack of experience is a smart choice. It improves both your chances of success and survival. Spending an extra day at Camp Muir will help a lot. Make sure to drink a lot of water, that will help with acclimatization.

The loads most folks take on Denali is about 100lbs, however, most climbers use some combination of sleds and double carries so you really never need to carry more than 50lbs on your back. When I did Denali that was certainly the case, my pack at most weighed 50lbs, and we carried a lot of extra shit (ice tools, rock gear, etc.) for the technical route we were attempting. We pulled sleds the first two days to 11k and then made two double carries; one to 14k, and one 17k. This is pretty standard as one needs to climb high and sleep low to acclimatize.

cdnstig wrote:

You'll be following a trench dug by scores of people each morning, and a guide is a waste of money.

Alas - I know no one who is capable or interested in doing such a trip. It's also my first time so I figured it's safer to get the experience, skills and oversights from a guide. I hope one day I can climb without the need of guides.

Dragging out my soapbox (sorry!)... Are you patient? If you want to be able to say "I climbed Rainier" by next year, you can pay $1000 to some guide and another $1000 or so for the gear they make you buy, and you're done. Replace "Rainier" with "Everest" and "$1000" with "$60,000," and you can probably do that, too.

But what happens the next time you want to do something similar? Most guiding companies make their money getting people to the top of mountains they want to climb, so they have no incentive to teach people the skills to do it by themselves. If you choose the right program, you may be able to learn enough to make it worth the cost, but it's by no means guaranteed.

How can you do Rainier on your own? It is unfortunately afflicted by an absurd permit system, so you'll need a partner, who you can probably find on SummitPost or some similar website. Beyond that, climbing Rainier is a matter of dealing with 10,000 feet of elevation gain, with some of that on crevassed snow, so you need to answer some questions. How does your body respond to that altitude? You have to spend some time up there. How many vertical feet per hour can you climb in those conditions? I find that ft/hr is fairly consistent across terrain unless you find terrain-specific problems like AMS or unfamiliarity with snow. How do you deal with the crevasses? On a standard Rainier route, you will be following a boot-pack with wands near any significant crevasses, so you're unlikely to fall into one.

If you really want to do Rainier ASAP, then pay the price, but IMHO it's not worth it. It may take you an extra year, but compared to running a marathon and landing a plane, Rainier is easy.

seano wrote: How do you deal with the crevasses? On a standard Rainier route, you will be following a boot-pack with wands near any significant crevasses, so you're unlikely to fall into one.

Wow, that is just really bad advice.

cdnstig, you are making the right decision by hiring a guide for your first 14er and first mountaineering experience. Your training plan is solid and you'll do fine. Make sure you 're well hydrated on the mountain and eat only what your body will let you keep down. That may only be a hand full of nuts or something. Don't force food as that may amplify the negative.

My training plan for Denali is somewhat similar to EB and consists of:

Mon - Complex movement strength training which targets the entire body.

Tue - Thurs - hill sprints / power hike a .7 mile 900 ft gain hill 2 - 3 times.

Fri - Same as Mon

Sat - Big mile & gain day hikes - 15 mile min - 40 mile max with a min gain of 8,000 OR a Sat - Sun overnighter at 10,000 ft with a full pack.

Stay safe and enjoy! You'll most likely catch the bug after this


Seano - As for soloing on Rainier, they will issue you a solo permit if you have completed 5-10 summits of Rainier OR terrain similar to Rainier or a successful summit of Denali. I know this because I applied for a solo permit a few weeks ago.

Chris Simpson wrote:Seano - As for soloing on Rainier, they will issue you a solo permit if you have completed 5-10 summits of Rainier OR terrain similar to Rainier or a successful summit of Denali. I know this because I applied for a solo permit a few weeks ago.

Did you get it?

I got one for Kautz with no previous Big R attempts, but I had a long resume of soloing on other lines on other big peaks, and endured a pretty intense personal interview... permit granted "with reservation." I got the impression they aren't granted very often.