Just had a great weekend with one of two ladies who walk with me from time to time down from the weekend. We walked local hills in SE England Saturday and Sunday of course, and I cooked us supper when we got home.

Sitting in the kitchen both Saturday and Sunday evenings I put an "Everest" dvd on to watch.

Saturday we watched the film about the successful 1953 expedition, (great film by the way: 350 porters needed in the lower stages of the march to Base Camp!). Sunday we watched a film that covered Everest expeditions over quite a long period of time.

Changes in gear were obvious over the years from 1953 onwards!

One that really struck me were ice axe lengths.

I've recently got a 90 cm, (just under 36 inches), walkers ice axe, (from the USA, not easily available in the UK at that length). That suits my winter mountain walking fine. It replaces my two leki sticks in winter, and gives me great support, a sort of belay when dragging myself up very short steep sections and for clearing ice off rocks to give me a decent foothold etc. I don't really carry it for self arrest as current thinking, (I am told), is that it is too long for that. So if I am going on a route where I expect to go up a steep icy/snowy slope I will take my 65cm axe with the intention of swapping over before I start the steep section.

But in the 1953 dvd the long ice axes seemed to be the norm. Not being carried just in case of self arrest or step cutting etc need. But being used as I use mine. Bit like an Alpenstock I suppose. As a "walking stick on ice and snow", ie almost continuous use. With the ability to be used for cutting steps etc if needed.

Later film footage we watched showed the modern shorter ice axes. On the less steep sections just strapped to backpacks as something that "may be needed later".

I found it interesting to watch that development as the eras covered by the films changed and got more modern.

Made me wonder what triggered the trend to shorter ice axes as seen today. Anyone know or can comment on that?

And for me to ask the question, "doesn't anyone else need the longer ice axe that can be used instead of a Leki stick or equivalent in winter conditions?".

Thanks for that. I had heard about that type of axe/stick but not seen a photo of one.

I guess my Black Diamond 90 cm axe is best for me though. I'm a big guy and did use it a lot in Snowdonia. Including some descents where I was quite grateful for it's strength: I was able to let it take quite a lot of my weight on some icy/rocky bits as I went down various tracks. I confess to not being sure footed. So it was really like having a third leg at times!

Hey Bryan, if it works for you and your stated purposes, that's all that matters, eh?
And, I'm sure if you practice with it, you'll be able to self arrest. Work on it with someone who's proficient at it, maybe.
Don't know the answer to your questions regarding the evolution toward shorter lengths. Everything does evolve, however.
I use a 70cm. and it suits me fine, even though some of my friends said to go much shorter, but, I'm 6ft 1, and that little bit longer seemed to fit me. Would like to get a shorter one, or a smaller tool for the steeper stuff, should I ever get on it.
Cheers.

Different axes for different people. I use a 65cm for most everything non-technical and I love it. For me, anyway, if the axe is not long enough to penetrate the snow, the slope is flat enough that I don't need an ice axe, and I just carry it because I like the way it feels in my hand. I have used it to climb up 70-degree snow slopes, 45-degree dirt slopes (with arrest!) and descend class 4 rock. I have also carried my axe on the trail quite a bit.

My dad prefers a 75cm axe, even though many of these experiences we have shared, and he's 2 inches shorter than me. After getting my first set of ice tools, my axe seems quite long, even at only 65cm. But I know it's right for me. If it feels right to you, it probably is. And arrest is completely possible with a 90cm axe, just make sure to put all your weight on the head instead of the shaft.

-Mark

Mark Straub wrote:And arrest is completely possible with a 90cm axe, just make sure to put all your weight on the head instead of the shaft.

Yes, I don't know why the length would prevent self arrest. If you fall on your back, you're supposed to roll toward and over the head of the axe, not the spike, so the spike is just in open air for this. During arrest, the spike is off to your side, pointing away from you, so again it doesn't really matter if it sticks out a bit longer.

Or did I miss something?

squishy wrote:Read this: http://www.grivel.com/Storia/Storia_Det.asp?Cat=P

The years between the two world wars saw an advance in the technical use of crampons, reducing the length and weight of the ice-axes without making great changes in their design.

The end of the 2nd. world war witnessed an increased interest in albinism. Tools became shorter, lighter, and offered a better performance whilst maintaining traditional design, up until the middle of the 1960's. Questions of safety and technical ability became partially separated.

Thanks Squish, some interesting details in that link.

And Day Hiker. Maybe it's not you who is missing something re self arrest and a 90 cm ice axe! Walking with one in Snowdonia did elicit comments from the few others I met. The general sort of comment was "Must be useful for walking in snow and ice, but it will be no good for self arrest".

I can't really answer the question until I find somewhere "safe" to practice self arrest. But comments here make me think that it is possible with a 90cm axe.

Bryan Benn wrote:

squishy wrote:Read this: http://www.grivel.com/Storia/Storia_Det.asp?Cat=P

The years between the two world wars saw an advance in the technical use of crampons, reducing the length and weight of the ice-axes without making great changes in their design.

The end of the 2nd. world war witnessed an increased interest in albinism. Tools became shorter, lighter, and offered a better performance whilst maintaining traditional design, up until the middle of the 1960's. Questions of safety and technical ability became partially separated.

Thanks Squish, some interesting details in that link.

And Day Hiker. Maybe it's not you who is missing something re self arrest and a 90 cm ice axe! Walking with one in Snowdonia did elicit comments from the few others I met. The general sort of comment was "Must be useful for walking in snow and ice, but it will be no good for self arrest".

I can't really answer the question until I find somewhere "safe" to practice self arrest. But comments here make me think that it is possible with a 90cm axe.

Why wouldn't it be possible? As long as you use proper technique and put pressure on the head and not the shaft, it will work just fine...



The ice axe will work fine! The ice axe! Get your minds out of the gutter!

Bigger is always better! (Or at least that's what she said)

Hotoven wrote:Bigger is always better! (Or at least that's what she said)

Maybe it's just because you were using bent tools.

-Mark