Neophiteat48 wrote:I'm assuming that most or all of this is directed at me.

Troy

No, Troy, it is not.
Don't you worry.

I'm assuming that most or all of this is directed at me.

Troy

Troy, pull out your favorite book of mythology. You and I are mortals, toiling in the valley. High above, on Mount Olympus, the gods are fighting. Athena and Ares hurl thunderbolts. Poseidon rumbles. Far below, mortals cower. It's not about us.

chugach mtn boy wrote:

I'm assuming that most or all of this is directed at me.

Troy

Troy, pull out your favorite book of mythology. You and I are mortals, toiling in the valley. High above, on Mount Olympus, the gods are fighting. Athena and Ares hurl thunderbolts. Poseidon rumbles. Far below, mortals cower. It's not about us.

I know, boy to I feel stupid.

Neophiteat48 wrote:

chugach mtn boy wrote:

I'm assuming that most or all of this is directed at me.

Troy

Troy, pull out your favorite book of mythology. You and I are mortals, toiling in the valley. High above, on Mount Olympus, the gods are fighting. Athena and Ares hurl thunderbolts. Poseidon rumbles. Far below, mortals cower. It's not about us.

I know, boy to I feel stupid.

Don't travel down that road...

Take a step back, breathe, relax, and go out. Submit your trip reports and pictures. You will gain much more respect contributing to SP that way than being consumed and devoured by the forum.

Honest, sincere advice.

SoCalHiker wrote:

Neophiteat48 wrote:

chugach mtn boy wrote:

I'm assuming that most or all of this is directed at me.

Troy

Troy, pull out your favorite book of mythology. You and I are mortals, toiling in the valley. High above, on Mount Olympus, the gods are fighting. Athena and Ares hurl thunderbolts. Poseidon rumbles. Far below, mortals cower. It's not about us.

I know, boy to I feel stupid.

Don't travel down that road...

Take a step back, breathe, relax, and go out. Submit your trip reports and pictures. You will gain much more respect contributing to SP that way than being consumed and devoured by the forum.

Honest, sincere advice.

+1

Neophiteat48 wrote:

chugach mtn boy wrote:

I'm assuming that most or all of this is directed at me.

Troy

Troy, pull out your favorite book of mythology. You and I are mortals, toiling in the valley. High above, on Mount Olympus, the gods are fighting. Athena and Ares hurl thunderbolts. Poseidon rumbles. Far below, mortals cower. It's not about us.

I know, boy to I feel stupid.

Don't feel stupid. None of the Lolli and Chewbacca stuff is about the 13 year old boy climbing Everest. It goes back a few months, before your time here.

This part:

I guess I’m talking to the wall right now, but being one of the presumably many who didn’t take sides, tried to hold the middle ground when either side had it out on each other,

It has nothing to do with whether or not a 13 year old boy should climb Everest.

Lolli wrote:...

Calling it as one sees it does not necessarily mean one is taking sides. For people who are receiving the criticism but are absolutely convinced of their righteousness in the matter, that is difficult or impossible to accept, but it is true.

It hurts somewhat to write all this, Lolli. We have had many good discussions, you and I. You may also remember our discussion of what I would call my “damsel in distress” complex, my need to help and protect women and girls, something that for me is both a weakness and a credit. So I hope you can understand why it is doubly hard for me to write this.

You have a tendency to perceive criticism as a personal attack, and you will probably see this that way. But I wish you no personal ill; you have never done me any personal harm. Nevertheless, I feel that you as an online entity are no longer good for this site.

You know that I used to sympathize with you and defend you, both in public and in private. Surely you will not deny that.

But your behavior over the few months preceding PnP’s demise and up until your departure opened my eyes. So what happened? Was attm my Wormtongue, poisoning my mind with his fell counsel? If so, why did several others who frequently criticized or argued with him come to see the same things in your behavior?

No, it was a pattern of manipulation, deception, hypocrisy, and agitation. And I don’t really know if the Elves favored you or it was a case of the squeaky wheel getting the grease, but they often acted in ways that appeared to acquiesce to your demands or protect you.

Quite a number of people know you were one of the four or five major players in the bitterness that broke out on this site. In fairness to you, I will admit that not all were your friends and will even name those others as I see them: truchas, Dingus Milktoast, Husker, Squishy, and maybe Ejnar.

But several people think you were more responsible for it than any other single person. And then you left. Amidst a wake of bannings, departures, and other changes directly and indirectly related to your actions, after you had “won” and effectively silenced your perceived persecutors, you left. I don’t know exactly why you left, but I do know the context of it.

You were like the queen who waged war for control of the land, didn’t like the devastation the war created, wouldn’t accept her role in it, and decided she didn’t want it after all.

That was bad enough. But then you came back. It is an outrage. I wish you had stayed away, and I hope you will reconsider and leave for the sake of the site. If you respect Bob and Dave as you say you do-- I know you don’t respect Aaron-- then please do them a favor and make their jobs easier by leaving for good.

It is hardly a surprise that there has been a renewed outbreak of bitterness and controversy on this site since your return. After you left and Chief and truchas were banned, it has actually been pretty peaceful and quiet. The best part of it all, sort of, is that since truchas and Chief are banned, you can’t blame them for it, though you will probably invent a way to do so. So you can keep thinking of yourself as a victim and let your friends tell you that you are, or you can look in the proverbial mirror and ask yourself why people who used to support you and who never attacked you now feel as they do about your presence on this site.

Last thing-- it is also an outrage that you accused Chewbacca of being one who has taken sides against you. He was always a critic of attm, and on the alternate PnP site, he has more than once spoken out against naming and discussing people like you who are not members there. Disagree with him if you wish, but consider that maybe he speaks from a position of intellectual honesty. He deserves better than a cheap shot.

Really the last thing-- I admit to posting on the other forum recently and some time back about my views of what has happened on this site. There, I could do so without worrying about being banned for speaking my mind in a non-vulgar, reasoned manner. But enough is enough.

Dingus Milktoast wrote:Chewy... the term tribe is something I coined here in a sense and have used for a very long time, on SP and elsewhere. I have no intention of stopping, and certainly not because others chose to make an issue out of it.

Ever.

DMT

OH Tribe!!! Foolish me! And all this time I thought you were all bragging about being a heirarchy of tripe.

Is anyone else tired of seeing the same whiny drama infest every thread?

Yes!! Enough Whining Jason H!!

JasonH wrote:
FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well I picked it to go 5.

-From the Off Route NHL thread

heeheeheehee

Husker wrote:Yes!! Enough Whining Jason H!!

JasonH wrote:
FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well I picked it to go 5.

-From the Off Route NHL thread

heeheeheehee

That wasn't whining. That was a statement!

JasonH wrote:Is anyone else tired of seeing the same whiny drama infest every thread?

Jason, you seem like a cool guy and someone I'd enjoy climbing or having a beer with. That picture of you drinking a beer in the Lassen parking lot is one of my favorites on SP.

The answer to your question is "Yes," even from me in spite of my post above.

I know you've met our Helen in person (Lolli will appreciate that), and I have no doubt that if I met her for real, I would like her, too.

But online persona vs. real persona is something real. By every account I've ever seen, truchas is totally cool in person. If a true lib like Your Dudeness could admit that, how can it not be?

But until you and others can accept that people in the middle as well as on the other side have legitimate points that they can back up, this shit will just continue in one form or another.

It doesn't mean you have to agree. I don't expect you to. But please recognize that two reasonable people can see the same thing in very different ways.

twoshuzz wrote:Lolli, you are quite engaging and make it easy for many to befriend and support you. A gift that many would wish to have. A view that does not change in my eyes.

For my part, through the events of the last several months, I began to see a polarizing individual lacking of innocence, acting with intent. Sometimes, in the open forum. Others, via private channels.

Damn-- if I could have come up with that, I'd have had some more free time tonight!

Bob Sihler wrote: By every account I've ever seen, truchas is totally cool in person.

+1

I can vouch for this! I've shared several summits with him! Great guy! Some on this site aren't worthy of his presence.