White Gas in an enclosed tent...hmmm!

Responded to two different incidents during my SAR career where both parties ended up succumbing to their 3rd & 4th Degree burns on scene or in my helo, when during the priming phase of the light up, or cooking phase, fuel either leaked or shot all over the interior the tent, ignited and totally engulfed them,

When we arrived on the scene of both incidents, the only thing left was a charred rectangular debris site of smoldering melted nylon and humans crying in dire agony and gasping for air as their airways were completely burned.

Not a pretty site to say the least. Especially when ya got attempt to give them CPR and ventilate them.

All it takes is one time for this to occur and it most definitely will be one to be remember. Or in these cases, as others, the last time.

From the MSR XGK SITE

DANGER!
CARBON MONOXIDE, FIRE & EXPLOSION HAZARD
This stove consumes oxygen. Using it in an enclosed area will
cause carbon monoxide poisoning and death.
For outdoor use only. Do not use stove in a tent, car, house, or
inside any enclosed area.
This stove uses highly flammable fuel. Leaking fuel can
easily ignite and cause fire, serious burns, property
damage, personal injury, and death. Do not use a stove that
has a fuel leak.
This stove uses a sealed fuel bottle that can explode when
exposed to extreme heat. An explosion can cause serious
burns, property damage, personal injury, and death. Keep fuel
bottle away from stove burner and other heat sources.
READ, UNDERSTAND, AND FOLLOW ALL instructions and
warnings in this manual before using this stove.
Failure to follow all warnings and instructions can result in
property damage, serious injury, or death."

Canisters have a far better safety track record for interior tent cooking.... my system of choice even in the dead of winter down to -10F.


Utilizing one of these over the fuel canister assists in the insulation process as well...



Used my BIBLER CANISTER HANGING STOVE SYSTEM for almost two decades on Walls (inside the Fly of my Ledge) as well as in my Megamid in the dead of Winter.



EDIT: ADDITIONS

ExcitibleBoy wrote:The only predators one has to worry about on Denali are ravens. While bears and bear signs have been seen on the glaciers, it is extremely rare and I can only remember a single instance where a bear threatened climbers on the glacier.

And a fascinating story it is. Brian Okonek first shared this story with me in Talkeetna many years ago as he was involved as a responder to the situation. 15 years later......I am sharing my personal bear encounters with a fellow partner from NY (who I have climbed on and off with) as we hike out of a climb at Red Rocks last spring..........and he pipes up and shares his...which is in fact the incident Brian had shared with me those many years ago. An incredible story that comes across quite humorous, after the fact.

I try not to cook inside my tent...

FortMental wrote:I saw Russians using white gas, light-weight titanium heaters inside their tents. The kind of guys that designed the high tech writing implement that works in a zero-G, sub zero, outer space environment: the pencil.

The first incident which I speak of that I responded to out on Mina Bluff Antarctica, were four Russians. They all perished. Three on scene and the fourth in my helo as I and my assistant SAR Corpsman were attempting to administer CPR en route to Mac Town.

i need to get to these threads sooner.


cooking outside is always safer but not always possible. use white gas in a vestibule and canisters anywhere you want. regardless of stove keep some ventilation going. BAM.

Turkey + Swiss + Bread + Condiments.

Dow Williams wrote:

ExcitibleBoy wrote:The only predators one has to worry about on Denali are ravens. While bears and bear signs have been seen on the glaciers, it is extremely rare and I can only remember a single instance where a bear threatened climbers on the glacier.

And a fascinating story it is. Brian Okonek first shared this story with me in Talkeetna many years ago as he was involved as a responder to the situation. 15 years later......I am sharing my personal bear encounters with a fellow partner from NY (who I have climbed on and off with) as we hike out of a climb at Red Rocks last spring..........and he pipes up and shares his...which is in fact the incident Brian had shared with me those many years ago. An incredible story that comes across quite humorous, after the fact.

Ok, with teases like that, one of you has to at least summarize the story for us. Please?

We always cooked in the tent. On Denali our stove flared up BIG TIME and my buddy flung the stove at me (since I was sitting next to the door).

I fumbled the pass and my down pants went -- POOF! -- but I got the conflagration out the door anyway.

Now I always cook outside.

With all due respect Fortmental I don't know what your experience with grizzlies is but beyond the constraints of a high climbing camp on grizzly range whatever our level of experience rational people do not not cook in the immediate vicinty of their tent let alone in it, they do not wash in the vicinty of where they cook or eat or sleep....they don't sleep in the clothes they cook in [good point whoever implied that], they don't pee near their tent, etc., etc. Rationaly, given the statistical record bears are not to be feared, but simple precautions can prevent confrontation. 20 feet isn't much but if conditions permitted it whether or not my location was bear accessible I'd mitigate my risks by not having food odors originate and fester on the inside of my tent for that night or any night down the trail. UV and weather seems to do pretty well but I do launder my tent occasionaly too because I know the hierarchy of the Grizzlies preferred odors. I have darn near had the !@#$ scared out of me more than once so say what you wish, I prefer to err on the side of simple, rational precaution so all I see in the morning are the tracks that mull around my camp overnite sometimes because some arrogant posterior orificie before me couldn't be bothered to cook AND EAT a reasonable distance from the obvious tent site.

For anyone else that didn't understand the rhetorical nature of my implication and question I highly reccomend you use a different tent for approaches in grizzly if not any bear country. I realize that will prove impractical for some of you so climb your own climb and hike your own hike. Although if you decide to climb any of the 1,000'+Breccia Cliffs of our plateaus forget everything I said. The bear will save on recovery costs.

In all seriousness in the GYE Grizzly and Black Bear encounters are increasing with a Grizzly population that still grew with near record human caused bear fatalities at the same time. I see more and more of them. I'm just gonna suggest that depending on where you are I can certify the Tetons, Wind Rivers, Gos Ventre, etc., are no longer Grizzly Free and local regulations and notifications are evolving with range expansion. Thanks for the discussion,

John

Doublecabin wrote:rational people do not not cook in the immediate vicinty of their tent let alone in it, they do not wash in the vicinty of where they cook or eat or sleep....they don't sleep in the clothes they cook in [good point whoever implied that], they don't pee near their tent, etc., etc.

I do all these and I believe myself to be extremely rational. It would be severely irrational not to when it's -10. If conditions warrant cooking in your tent you are either too high or too cold to worry about bears. If a bear is at 14,000 on Denali or out in the Sierra in winter when it's -5, you probably have terrible karma and deserve the terrible bear mauling that is coming your way.

Also, I believe peeing near camp is actually beneficial. I think it gives the bear a little more warning that they are entering the territory of another large mammal which I'm sure makes them at least think twice about getting closer. I always pee around camp to mark my territory.

drpw wrote:. I always pee around camp to mark my territory.

Yup

+ 1

Have to talk to animals in their own language.

So in Grizzly Range where you have the option to cook at a distance from your tent, to bathe at a distance, to deficate, at a distance, you don't do it? So be it. Just remember however long the odds might be you very well could be resposnible for someone that camps there after you having an intimate bear confrontation of one level or another. If you wind down at Wonder Lake or anywhere else aftrewards just remember your tent is more attractive to bears than it was before you cooked in it, period.

Peeing a perimeter is fine, however if you do it right out of your tent that's crazy not just for bears but goats, sheep, etc. Like I said, tracks the following morning are more than I care for but given apparent attitudes of some of us about caring for the safety of campers that might follow us all I can do is exercise all appropriate protocols, and cooking in a tent you don't have to isn't one of them. Like I said hike your own hike. I'll do the same.

Peace

tazz wrote::lol: thanks for my morning laugh Larry...

How 'bout your evening laugh ???

Doublecabin wrote:Like I said, tracks the following morning are more than I care for but given apparent attitudes of some of us about caring for the safety of campers that might follow us all I can do is exercise all appropriate protocols

That's a good point. I haven't seen it in the permit (etc.) system, and it should be there.

Does anyone know if there's research on the perimeter-peeing point? I have some experience using peeing to communicate with animals (don't ask) but I can imagine it working either way with a grizz.