I am planning an attempt on Denali for next summer (may/june) with friends. One has already attempted, got to within 300 ft. I want to avoid spending huge amounts of $ where possible but still be prepared. We will be walking in from the north side through the park, minimal technical route. Can someone experienced say what they would take for gear or offer any general advice?

I already have...
XC skis and poles with regular off trail boots
Scarpa Phantom Lite mountaineering boots
Camp XLC crampons
regular ice axe (75cm)
5500 cu in internal frame pack
0 degree down bag (can i get a liner and be good?)
winter bivy sack
30m rope
mountaineering harness

friends have more gear and ill be able to borrow some
what do i need individually really?
what clothing will i need? (i have no down gear at this point, always just layered up polar fleece)

Clothing: whatever you wear in Sierra at coldest spells in winter should be good. Some down parka with a hood or a nice synthetic jacket should be good. And maybe getting some kind of insulated pants would be a good idea. Since your down bag is not the warmest it will be great aid to wear those insulated pants in high camp while you sleep. You guys will have tents I hope, not bivy sacks right? Have fun on your trip..

bedellympian wrote:I am planning an attempt on Denali for next summer (may/june) with friends. One has already attempted, got to within 300 ft. I want to avoid spending huge amounts of $ where possible but still be prepared. We will be walking in from the north side through the park, minimal technical route. Can someone experienced say what they would take for gear or offer any general advice?

XC skis and poles with regular off trail boots
Scarpa Phantom Lite mountaineering boots
Camp XLC crampons
regular ice axe (75cm)
5500 cu in internal frame pack
0 degree down bag (can i get a liner and be good?)
winter bivy sack
30m rope
mountaineering harness

friends have more gear and ill be able to borrow some
what do i need individually really?
what clothing will i need? (i have no down gear at this point, always just layered up polar fleece)

Boy, where do I start? You really need to educate yourself regarding Denali, here is a start http://www.summitpost.org/a-punters-gui ... ess/492622. The idea that a winter climbing kit in the Sierra is adequate for Denali may work in perfect conditions, but do you want to gamble your trip and fingers and toes on a grossly optomistic view of the mountain? Between airfare, shuttles, permits, and supplies, climbing Denali is no longer a cheap destination so you might as well buck up and spend some money on a decent kit.

Specifically,

You need warmer boots. You can buy used plastic boots and then add a 40 below overboot and be fine.
You need a 50 meter rope. The crevasses in AK Range are huge. You need enough length between you and your partners to span the large crevasses with enough left over to set up a hauling system.
Skiing with a big pack and sled is a stupid joke. Unless you are a strong skiier I would opt for plastic snow shoes. Cheaper airfare as they can fit into your duffle and not in a separate ski bag.
An overbag will probably be your best bet if you don't want to shell out for a new bag.
Leave the bivi sack at home, bring expedition quality tents. The MH Trango 2 is the most popular.
A baffeled, hooded, down or heavy synthetic parka is a must. Puffy pants are good too.
Primaloft insulated gloves like Marmot Expedition mitts are nice on summit day.
Whte gas stoves are derigeur. Bring a repar kit and spare pump.
Shovel and snow saw for making camp and snow walls.
Pickets, screws and crevasse rescue kit

bedellympian wrote: Can someone experienced say what they would take for gear or offer any general advice?

Sign up for this class right now:

http://www.rmiguides.com/mt-rainier/winter-seminar

Autoxfil wrote:

bedellympian wrote: Can someone experienced say what they would take for gear or offer any general advice?

Sign up for this class right now:

http://www.rmiguides.com/mt-rainier/winter-seminar

That is a good start. I have climbed Rainier a few times in the winter but it was never as cold as 17k on Denali.

Thanks for the advice everyone. I am planning on doing Shasta and then Rainier this winter as part of my prep.

I'll remember that about the bivy. We'll have good tents for sure.

How strong of a skier are you talking about? I have backcountry experience on all sorts of crap. I could rent an AT set up and I find skis way more efficient and comfortable than snow shoes. But I see your point about hauling that crap around.

We'll be doing this thing the cheap mans way, no bush planes, no guides, no fancy shiny new gear. I have no delusions that I am or will be really ready for this. I was really aiming to climb Sanford in the Wrangells in a couple years after getting a lot of experience in the lower 48 but this just popped up and I couldn't turn it down. I am just hoping it will be great learning experience and a lot of fun.

bedellympian wrote:How strong of a skier are you talking about?

I am a medocre skiier (double black diamonds at resorts are generally challenging to me). Skis are a great way to get around the AK Range, but you will be hauling a lot of gear and wearing soft mountain boots. It's difficult to ski down hill with this set up. You can make life easier by attaching a cord to the front of the ski to a strap that goes around your leg, just below the knee. By leaning back you can get more control over the ski. I have seen climbers carry two boots; a four buckle AT boot and an expedition climbing boot so they could ski downhill efficiently.

If you want cold training for Denali, do a winter camping trip to Northern Minnesota the end of January or do the Arrowhead Ultra.

Unless you get some freak warm spell, It will be at least -20F and maybe -40F nearly every night.

No bush planes ? You gonna walk in from Wonder Lake ? I would second reading this:
http://www.summitpost.org/a-punters-gui ... ess/492622

Also, I am going back to Denali in May as well. I do a fair amount of training in Tahoe (House in Truckee, I see you live in Reno) PM me if you ever want to do a training hike together. We can discuss what gear I brought last trip. Scott

I summited Denali a looooooong time ago (1981) with 2 friends. Denali is really cold, we had it easy with only -25 temps, -40 is not unusual.

This is what I found to be useful:
* Take care of your feet. I used first generation Koflach plastics with full overboots. Never let your toes get cold - dump the x-c set up, the boots won't be warm enough.
* Ski, do not snowshoe, it is much more efficient both up and down. I used Silvretta (cables) that I altered to fit the boots; Silvretta 500 are the standard now and should fit your Scarpas.
* We used big packs (6000 c.i.) and sleds which worked fine on the Kahiltna up to 11,000. To save money we used the best kids sleds we could find and reinforced them with aluminum stays and added straps. They lasted for many more trips.
* Sleeping bag to -20 plus bivvy sac, 1 pad was ok but 2 would have been better, all inside a TNF VE24 tent.
* Rope: 2-50m or 1-100m for 3 climbers plus a pair of ascenders each.
* 2 stoves - they breakdown. Note: there is gas up there that other climbers leave behind. Do not rely on it, most of it is old and has condensate water in it from the air.
* Clothing: I agree, your Sierra kit for bad conditions should be okay. I used light and heavy longies together, heavy wool shirt, heavy pile pants & jacket, and wind jacket. I brought a lot of other clothing (wool pants, scarf, wool shirt, exped down jacket) but did not use it.
Have fun

I summited earier this year, 3 of us, unguided. Without sounding like and ass, if that is all the stuff you have pinned down you are way behind. I know you said your friends have some gear but you really need to sort all that out and then training with all of it.

There is tons of information out there. Go through it all and then ask about very speific things. Your list is so short right now I don't even know where to start.

I know this post sounds like I'm an ass but in the 21 days I was in AK to include 17 days on the mountain I saw or heard of 5 people killed and 2 other serious accidents.

doc1911 is right. You are preparing to become a statistic. You need to train to be in the best shape of your life. Call the Talkeetna ranger station and get the scoop on permits. You will need about 130# of gear and food per person to hike in and summit. You need to read The Freedom of the Hills and memorize most of it. Also read the last 10 years of "Accidents in North American Mountaineering" specifically the Denali section. I spent 23 days on Denali in May/June and many nights were -20F and -30F. Check out the RMI expedtion seminar and the Denali gear list on their website. Set aside the notion that you can do this on the cheap. Good gear can save your life. Its gonna be expensive with or without a guide. If you can't afford to do this now, wait a year or two and save the money to get good gear. You will quickly see that if you start now, you could consider doing this trip in 2013 or 2014, if, after learning all you need to know, you find that you still want to. This is not an attempt to glorify myself or the others who have summited there but to protect those who think this is a walk-up. It may be non-technical but in spite of that, lots of folks die up there.

I think if you are experienced with mountains and get out constantly, especially in winter, you should be fine. As long as you are competent in crevasse rescue, snow travel some steepish terrain, icy traversing at places, know how to self arrest, and have gear that works. You do not need the best gear on market, don't listen to the people who will tell you "your gonna die without that brand new mountain hardwear sleeping bag or OR altis." A lot of people on that mountain are not competent, their only goal is to summit, and they hire guides to get them there. If you are not traveling on the same route with all those people you do not have the choice to be incompetent. You should really know your shit and have it together. I am not assuming you don't, but if you think you don't than get to work. There will not be anyone else to break the trail show the way, help with a rescue, or drop off some extra fuel/food on that side of the mountain.

Good Luck

I appreciate everyone's input and concern and want to thank you all for taking time to respond.

I have been doing lots of research. I have been to and climbed in Alaska before and visited Fairbanks in December. So I do actually know that I am insane when I hear -40 and sleeping in a tent.

The Karsten's Ridge route with hike in from Wonder Lake is well established and the second most used route on the mountain. Guiding groups offering traverses fly on to Kahiltna and hike out to Wonder Lake by this route.

I realize that my gear is currently not up to snuff by a lot. I didn't mention everything above to imply I meant to use it, but just to show what I do have/use and am familiar with. When I say cheap I mean similar to the punters guide article several of you suggested, buying used gear where appropriate.

I have Freedom 8th ed and have read most of it, haven't done the rock climbing section yet. I am WFR certified and have done glacier travel in the Cascades, Patagonia and Alaska. My climbing partners are two experienced climbers from B.C., one who has also spent several years in AK; and one from AK who climbed Denali to over 19,000 ft last year by the Karsten's route.

I hope this makes people a little less concerned about my trajectory towards casualty statistic. I have been to 14,000 ft multiple times but never higher. I don't see the summit as a driving force so much as a bonus I might get on my first truly big mountain. I just want to have fun and learn as much as possible from this experience.

Anymore thoughts on gear, training, etc. would be really appreciated. Thanks again!