..My 2 cents

At around 03:00 on the 24th May, an hour above the balcony I came across 'Chris'. A client with IMG, who was sitting on a ridge. He was covered in wind packed snow ice. I asked him if he was OK.

He replied he couldn't get any oxygen and I realised all his vents on his top out mask were completely frozen up. I snapped off the icicles. and checked the inside of his mask to make sure there was no ice on the inside.

I asked the Sherpa with me - pemba, to check his regulator and at this point we had a disconnect as he wanted to continue climbing and Pemba said that Chris had a sherpa. The problem was I couldn't see any other sherpas, all I could see was a guy sitting down, covered in snow and complaining of no oxygen.

The way that Chris spoke (very slowly)and his apparent apathy, I assumed he was in a slow spiral to serious trouble. I asked for the radio from Pemba and called Adventure consultants and Altitude Junkies. I couldn't remember IMG's or the HRA's frequency. I understandably couldn't get a hold either companies (Mike or Phil) as both groups had summit-ed the day previously and were most likely asleep

Not getting in contact with anyone and Chris still sitting down. I told him that we had to descend. My wife with such a good sherpa, that I didnt really mind leaving them behind. Chris was agreeable to going down and got up and I helped him disconnect his jumar.

As we were starting our descent, Justin from IMG appeared, realizing he was missing one of his group. I told Justin that I thought Chris was hypothermic and needed to descend. Chris was quiet and I assumed acquiesced. I learnt later that Chris did descend with another sherpa. Subsequently talking to Justin, the IMG guide, he said Chris always talked slow and was 'just kinda like that" so perhaps was not as hypothermic as I suspected.

..moving along...by the time I had hit the south summit, I had caught up with my wife. We ascended the Hillary Step together and summit together. By the time, we had got to the Hillary Step, my wife was not 100% completely lucid, having occasional 'panic attacks' and took a big slide off the summit ridge to be saved by the fixed line.

In contrast to my performance past the balcony in aiding and assisting in someone needing rescue, I was in no position whatsoever to aid my wife, apart from utter occasional encouragement. The word I use to describe myself from summit descent basically to halfway down to the balcony is feeble. Basically having the energy to sustain myself down but having nothing in reserve. By the time we were on the ridge between south summit and balcony, we had both improved, to the point we I had some more 'horsepower' over to assist if necessary..but prior to that point, I had absolutely nothing. For a couple of hours, I couldn't help my wife.

We had heaps of oxygen as well, probably between 3-4 l/min above the south summit. (I cant of course verify this.)

Personally, if I got in trouble. I would be devastated if people died trying to save me. I say this with some conviction, as I fell of a abseil line on Ama Dablam and limped back in to Camp 1 as a search team commenced looking for me. I was horrified at the the though of my climbing colleagues putting themselves in danger because of my own stupidity. Of course I wold have been horrified if they had done nothing. As for helping others, I know know that when I can I will help people and it is a reason why I have completed and maintained my WFR.

I also know that at one stage, I was totally unable to help my own wife.

fatdad wrote:

Buz Groshong wrote: Actually you've lumped quite a few people into "one category" without knowing the facts. Your statement:

Your "teammates" are paying to have their asses dragged to the summit, not stick their necks out to save someone whose primarily qualification was their ability to write a big check.

lumps all those who use hired guides into the category of those having "their asses dragged to the summit" and "whose primarily qualification was their ability to write a big check." An extremely ignorant assumption.

Fine. A broad assumption, but hardly ignorant I would argue. Show me I'm wrong.

No, you spouted the asshole assumption; you show me you're right.

Buz Groshong wrote:

fatdad wrote:

Buz Groshong wrote: Actually you've lumped quite a few people into "one category" without knowing the facts. Your statement:

Your "teammates" are paying to have their asses dragged to the summit, not stick their necks out to save someone whose primarily qualification was their ability to write a big check.

lumps all those who use hired guides into the category of those having "their asses dragged to the summit" and "whose primarily qualification was their ability to write a big check." An extremely ignorant assumption.

Fine. A broad assumption, but hardly ignorant I would argue. Show me I'm wrong.

No, you spouted the asshole assumption; you show me you're right.

Buz, I think you're taking this personally and it was never intended that way. If somehow I offended you then I apologize. Just remember, however, that this is a public forum and people are going to present differing points of view, so I think your choice of words is inappropriate.

For the record, my "assumption" is based on reading Krakauer's book, Boukarev's book, all the climbing press since the '96 incident. Also, the recent issues of Alpinist, with it's two part series on Everest also make general comments about the moutain's unfortunate slide into a guiding mountain.

radson wrote:..My 2 cents

That post was worth a hell of a lot more than $0.02!!

Butt seriously, a firsthand report from somebody WHO HAS BEEN THERE, who has helped assist another climber in need, and has also needed assistance himself at other times. I, for one, appreciate your frank comments.

That's the real deal, folks.

fatdad wrote:

Buz Groshong wrote:

fatdad wrote:

Buz Groshong wrote: Actually you've lumped quite a few people into "one category" without knowing the facts. Your statement:

Your "teammates" are paying to have their asses dragged to the summit, not stick their necks out to save someone whose primarily qualification was their ability to write a big check.

lumps all those who use hired guides into the category of those having "their asses dragged to the summit" and "whose primarily qualification was their ability to write a big check." An extremely ignorant assumption.

Fine. A broad assumption, but hardly ignorant I would argue. Show me I'm wrong.

No, you spouted the asshole assumption; you show me you're right.

Buz, I think you're taking this personally and it was never intended that way. If somehow I offended you then I apologize. Just remember, however, that this is a public forum and people are going to present differing points of view, so I think your choice of words is inappropriate.

For the record, my "assumption" is based on reading Krakauer's book, Boukarev's book, all the climbing press since the '96 incident. Also, the recent issues of Alpinist, with it's two part series on Everest also make general comments about the moutain's unfortunate slide into a guiding mountain.

"I think you're taking this personally" - another cheap shot, instead of valid information. I don't see how my choice of words is any more inappropriate than yours.

I also read Krakauer's book and Boukriev's book. Krakauer's book pointed to problems with the state of guided mountaineering on Everest, but it also seemed to indicate that not all of the guided mountaineering on Everest involved dragging a rich client's ass to the top. Boukriev's book indicated that he tried to teach mountaineering skills to his clients. Guided mountaineering seems to me to be more about teaching and less about dragging, and most of it costs no more than other sports. Everest is definitely not typical - it is much higher than most guided climbs. It is also more remote and takes more time, equipment, and support, so it obviously costs more. Obviously, if you can't pay, you can't play, but that doesn't mean that guiding companies don't also expect you to be fit and at least somewhat experienced. If you read Krakauer's book, you should have learned that although those he talked about were mostly wealthy, they were also at least somewhat prepared for what they were attempting.

Radson's story is invaluable illumination as to how it actually is up there. Often one has barely enough energy, if budgeted properly, to do what is needed to take care of his own situation and to split that energy with the task of rescuing someone else (even one's own spouse) would be imprudent and perhaps insure the death of two people. Deciding to go to these sorts of places, is implicit agreement to be ultimately responsible for one's own ass. These are tragic decisions to have to make, but they can be your reality, some day. It is easy to criticize from low altitude and the warmth of having your feet on earth rather than rock and ice, but many accomplished mountaineers are aware of just how much energy they have remaining, just how much they can, and cannot do. High mountaineering requires energy management. Let's only hope if we find ourselves in this sort of position we will have enough energy to help.

radson...

I am confused here.

Your story shares about you encountering "Chris" on your ascent or your descent to/from the summit.

"At around 03:00 on the 24th May, an hour above the balcony I came across 'Chris'. A client with IMG, who was sitting on a ridge. He was covered in wind packed snow ice. I asked him if he was OK......I asked the Sherpa with me - pemba, to check his regulator and at this point we had a disconnect as he wanted to continue climbing and Pemba said that Chris had a sherpa. The problem was I couldn't see any other sherpas, all I could see was a guy sitting down, covered in snow and complaining of no oxygen.....Not getting in contact with anyone and Chris still sitting down. I told him that we had to descend. My wife with such a good sherpa, that I didnt really mind leaving them behind. Chris was agreeable to going down and got up and I helped him disconnect his jumar..... As we were starting our descent, Justin from IMG appeared, realizing he was missing one of his group."

Are you telling us that you were descending from the summit at 0300 in the morning????


Am I the only one missing something in radson's story?


And the fact that the guide was confused as to the location of one of his clients and was returning to look for him, tells me that this whole deal on that hill is far worse than many are led to believe. Doesn't say much one bit for accountability of those that the guide/s are charged with... not one bit. I am sorry, Radson's story just reinforces what many, including myself, have been saying for a long ass time. This is a Money Hill. It's all about the money.

I am not getting any of Radson's story, not one bit. It contradicts what was reported.

Why was Chris left alone for all that time as people were coming and going to and from the summit??????

The Chief wrote:radson...

I am confused here.

Your story shares about you encountering "Chris" on your ascent or your descent to/from the summit.

"At around 03:00 on the 24th May, an hour above the balcony I came across 'Chris'. A client with IMG, who was sitting on a ridge. He was covered in wind packed snow ice. I asked him if he was OK......I asked the Sherpa with me - pemba, to check his regulator and at this point we had a disconnect as he wanted to continue climbing and Pemba said that Chris had a sherpa. The problem was I couldn't see any other sherpas, all I could see was a guy sitting down, covered in snow and complaining of no oxygen.....Not getting in contact with anyone and Chris still sitting down. I told him that we had to descend. My wife with such a good sherpa, that I didnt really mind leaving them behind. Chris was agreeable to going down and got up and I helped him disconnect his jumar..... As we were starting our descent, Justin from IMG appeared, realizing he was missing one of his group."

Are you telling us that you were descending from the summit at 0300 in the morning????


Am I the only one missing something in radson's story?


And the fact that the guide was confused as to the location of one of his clients and was returning to look for him, tells me that this whole deal on that hill is far worse than many are led to believe. Doesn't say much one bit for accountability of those that the guide/s are charged with... not one bit. I am sorry, Radson's story just reinforces what many, including myself, have been saying for a long ass time. This is a Money Hill. It's all about the money.

I am not getting any of Radson's story, not one bit. It contradicts what was reported.

Why was Chris left alone for all that time as people were coming and going to and from the summit??????

This sounds to me like what Krakauer was saying. I didn't get that he was complaining about the paying clients so much as about the attitudes and type of service provided by the paid guides. He seemed to me to be saying that the guides were just taking the money to help pay for their own trip to the summit and were neglecting their clients. This sort of criticism of professional guides in general is not new; some have been criticized for letting clients turn around (or encouraging them to do so) to minimize the amount of work the guide has to do for the money that's already been collected. My experience with professional guides in the U.S., Switzerland, and Peru is that most do a very good job and want to give the client the best possible experience - most also make a lot of effort to see that the client comes away with good training as well.

So, the main excuse for leaving a fellow human behind is because everyone is at 8000m's and it's everyone for themselves...INCLUDING THE GUIDES?

Wow!

Takes a special breed of person to do this hill.

Stepping over a dying man, that was abandoned by those that were charged to take care of him in order to get to the summit.

What a proud group of accomplished people to belong to.

I wonder if Chris Bonington was thinking of ever abandoning Doug Scott on the Ogre (7,285 metres)... not for a moment. Read the book and see what real human's do when a fellow climber needs their assistance when in dire and totally incapacitated situ's.

Edit: Addition

radson wrote:..My 2 cents

At around 03:00 on the 24th May, an hour above the balcony I came across 'Chris'. A client with IMG, who was sitting on a ridge. He was covered in wind packed snow ice. I asked him if he was OK.

He replied he couldn't get any oxygen and I realised all his vents on his top out mask were completely frozen up. I snapped off the icicles. and checked the inside of his mask to make sure there was no ice on the inside.

I asked the Sherpa with me - pemba, to check his regulator and at this point we had a disconnect as he wanted to continue climbing and Pemba said that Chris had a sherpa. The problem was I couldn't see any other sherpas, all I could see was a guy sitting down, covered in snow and complaining of no oxygen.

The way that Chris spoke (very slowly)and his apparent apathy, I assumed he was in a slow spiral to serious trouble. I asked for the radio from Pemba and called Adventure consultants and Altitude Junkies. I couldn't remember IMG's or the HRA's frequency. I understandably couldn't get a hold either companies (Mike or Phil) as both groups had summit-ed the day previously and were most likely asleep

Not getting in contact with anyone and Chris still sitting down. I told him that we had to descend. My wife with such a good sherpa, that I didnt really mind leaving them behind. Chris was agreeable to going down and got up and I helped him disconnect his jumar.

As we were starting our descent, Justin from IMG appeared, realizing he was missing one of his group. I told Justin that I thought Chris was hypothermic and needed to descend. Chris was quiet and I assumed acquiesced. I learnt later that Chris did descend with another sherpa. Subsequently talking to Justin, the IMG guide, he said Chris always talked slow and was 'just kinda like that" so perhaps was not as hypothermic as I suspected.

..moving along...by the time I had hit the south summit, I had caught up with my wife. We ascended the Hillary Step together and summit together. By the time, we had got to the Hillary Step, my wife was not 100% completely lucid, having occasional 'panic attacks' and took a big slide off the summit ridge to be saved by the fixed line.

In contrast to my performance past the balcony in aiding and assisting in someone needing rescue, I was in no position whatsoever to aid my wife, apart from utter occasional encouragement. The word I use to describe myself from summit descent basically to halfway down to the balcony is feeble. Basically having the energy to sustain myself down but having nothing in reserve. By the time we were on the ridge between south summit and balcony, we had both improved, to the point we I had some more 'horsepower' over to assist if necessary..but prior to that point, I had absolutely nothing. For a couple of hours, I couldn't help my wife.

We had heaps of oxygen as well, probably between 3-4 l/min above the south summit. (I cant of course verify this.)

Personally, if I got in trouble. I would be devastated if people died trying to save me. I say this with some conviction, as I fell of a abseil line on Ama Dablam and limped back in to Camp 1 as a search team commenced looking for me. I was horrified at the the though of my climbing colleagues putting themselves in danger because of my own stupidity. Of course I wold have been horrified if they had done nothing. As for helping others, I know know that when I can I will help people and it is a reason why I have completed and maintained my WFR.

I also know that at one stage, I was totally unable to help my own wife.

Great story radson and nice to see you were willing to help out a fellow climber.

chief, just to clarify.

I was ascending at 03:00. When I came across Chris after seeing his condition, I decided to help 'escort' him down. As we started, Justin returned and so I re-commenced my ascent.

This is not a criticism of Justin or IMG. I suspect that Chris had just sat down without informing anyone, so it took a while for Justin to realise he was not part of their ascending group. Upon realization that Chris was missing, he turned around and found Chris. Conditions in my opinion were extremely bad, I was generally ascending with at least one eye shut as the wind and spindrift was pounding me from the left hand side. I consider it very very easy not to notice, someone was not still part of the ascending team.

The Chief wrote:radson...

I am confused here.

Your story shares about you encountering "Chris" on your ascent or your descent to/from the summit.

"At around 03:00 on the 24th May, an hour above the balcony I came across 'Chris'. A client with IMG, who was sitting on a ridge. He was covered in wind packed snow ice. I asked him if he was OK......I asked the Sherpa with me - pemba, to check his regulator and at this point we had a disconnect as he wanted to continue climbing and Pemba said that Chris had a sherpa. The problem was I couldn't see any other sherpas, all I could see was a guy sitting down, covered in snow and complaining of no oxygen.....Not getting in contact with anyone and Chris still sitting down. I told him that we had to descend. My wife with such a good sherpa, that I didnt really mind leaving them behind. Chris was agreeable to going down and got up and I helped him disconnect his jumar..... As we were starting our descent, Justin from IMG appeared, realizing he was missing one of his group."

Are you telling us that you were descending from the summit at 0300 in the morning????


Am I the only one missing something in radson's story?


And the fact that the guide was confused as to the location of one of his clients and was returning to look for him, tells me that this whole deal on that hill is far worse than many are led to believe. Doesn't say much one bit for accountability of those that the guide/s are charged with... not one bit. I am sorry, Radson's story just reinforces what many, including myself, have been saying for a long ass time. This is a Money Hill. It's all about the money.

I am not getting any of Radson's story, not one bit. It contradicts what was reported.

Why was Chris left alone for all that time as people were coming and going to and from the summit??????

Conditions had cleared up a bit by time of descent

radson beat me too it.

So, you had to have re-encountered Chris on the descent, right?

Where was Justin coming from at 3AM (when you were ascending) when he was looking for Chris?

Had Chris been there all night and no one noticed him missing??

Who and why was Chris left there alone at 3am in total darkness?

This is not at all jiving with what was first reported.

"I consider it very very easy not to notice, someone was not still part of the ascending team."

Bullshit! Where was the Guide/Sherpa w/radio that is suppose to bring up the rear of their group?

some more clarification

times are approximate.

We departed at 21:30. Arrived at the Balcony at 02:00. Encountered Chris at 03:00. South Summit at 06:00. Summit at 08:00. I think got back to base camp at 14:00.