radson wrote:some more clarification

times are approximate.

We departed at 21:30. Arrived at the Balcony at 02:00. Encountered Chris at 03:00. South Summit at 06:00. Summit at 08:00. I think got back to base camp at 14:00.

Did you encounter Chris on your descent???????

And....

"I consider it very very easy not to notice, someone was not still part of the ascending team."

Bullshit! Where was the Guide/Sherpa w/radio that is suppose to bring up the rear of their group?

And please do not even tell me that isn't standard protocol on that hill by the Guiding Services.

Hell, we do that as guides down in here on easy street Whitney and all other hills in the neighboring area.

Don't even tell me that there wasn't a trailing guide or lead sherpa with a radio charged with staying behind with any straggler of the "team" which Chris was a part of.

If that is the case, then there are definitely some very serious safety issues on that hill.

"Obviously I think people who pass by others who are rescue material are too summit driven, but some of those worked their whole life/all savings just to make that trip happen and I could kind of see why they would do that."

Great valid reason to tell a fellow human being to fk off and die.



Doesn't look like Radson is gonna answer my key question:

Did you pass Chris, AGAIN, on your descent with your Guides and Sherpa's?

You had to have along with ALL the other Summiter's that day.

BTW, how many summited that day... curious to hear the total of people including Guides and Sherpa's, that literally stepped over Chris on their way up and then again, on their way down.

This story is getting more pathetic as Radson posts.

The Chief wrote:

radson wrote:some more clarification

times are approximate.

We departed at 21:30. Arrived at the Balcony at 02:00. Encountered Chris at 03:00. South Summit at 06:00. Summit at 08:00. I think got back to base camp at 14:00.

Did you encounter Chris on your descent???????

I think there is some confusion. Chris is not the person from the original story (Peter).

You're right. Who is "Chris" then?

This is another dude that got screwed over by his guides?

By what Radson story shares, this whole Everest thing is really getting pathetic. Guides losing track of their clients.... what the hell is going on on that hill???????

Radson... who is Chris?

chief, you have your own agenda going on, I am not going to try and explain further to you.

Anyone else, I will answer as best I can.

The Chief wrote:You're right. Who is "Chris" then?

This is another dude that got screwed over by his guides?

By what Radson story shares, this whole Everest thing is really getting pathetic. Guides losing track of their clients.... what the hell is going on on that hill???????

Radson... who is Chris?

radson wrote:chief, you have your own agenda going on, I am not going to try and explain further to you.

Anyone else, I will answer as best I can.

The Chief wrote:You're right. Who is "Chris" then?

This is another dude that got screwed over by his guides?

By what Radson story shares, this whole Everest thing is really getting pathetic. Guides losing track of their clients.... what the hell is going on on that hill???????

Radson... who is Chris?

Answer the question please.

Who is this "Chris" and why was he left alone in the dark by his guides?

Please answer.... has absolutely nothing to do with any agenda.

Be nice to hear about this incident on Everest.

When did this occur... just recently this season?

What does your story have to do with the OP?

[quote="Buz Groshong]"I think you're taking this personally" - another cheap shot, instead of valid information. I don't see how my choice of words is any more inappropriate than yours...

Boukriev's book indicated that he tried to teach mountaineering skills to his clients. Guided mountaineering seems to me to be more about teaching and less about dragging...

Obviously, if you can't pay, you can't play, but that doesn't mean that guiding companies don't also expect you to be fit and at least somewhat experienced. If you read Krakauer's book, you should have learned that although those he talked about were mostly wealthy, they were also at least somewhat prepared for what they were attempting.[/quote]

First, I offered an apology which you completely spit on, and though I wasn't the first one to offer insult. Since you decided to be ungracious rather than a gentleman about it, that's the last time I extend you a courtesy. If you want to be a tool about it, that's apparently your nature anyways, so tool on.

Second, pretty much everything you're reported from Krakauer's and Boukarev's books substantiate my earlier statement (which you completely disagreed with). They were teaching people mountaineering on Everest! You're supposed to have your act together before you get there, not learn it while you're there. It's not a teaching mountain for God's sake. Why do you think all those clients died? It's not just because they got caught in a storm, it's because they were caught in a storm and didn't have the skills to descend, nor the good judgment to have turned around in the first place, nor the skills to have even climbed that high without fixed ropes, sherpas to carry their loads, establish camps, do routefinding, etc., etc.

Even Radson's post confirms some of that claim. His wife slipped and was only saved by a fixed rope that would not have been there were it not a guided expedition. Prior to guided climbs, no one fixed ropes on the summit day except for on the Hillary Step. I'm not saying the same wouldn't have happened to me had I been there, but I bet you dollars to donuts I've got a lot more technical climbing experience than most of the people on this site and I got the common sense to know that--given my moutaineering (not climbing) resume is pretty thin--I have no business being there.

Radson...

Did you actually summit Everest just recently this season???

If so, with what service.

Please answer.

The Chief wrote:Bullshit!

So speaketh the resident poser. Crawl back under your rock.

Radson...

Did you actually take this photo:



So very bizarre that Alpynisto and Radson are on & posting at the same time on this same exact thread. I noticed that last year during the Aca guide death fiasco but did not think much of it. But, this time, the same gig happens? Could it be that the question of who this nobody, Alpynisto, really is, may finally be answered? Coincidence, twice?

Yup.. I am a poser alright.

Now, radson please answer when and with what Service did you summit Everest this season with.

"Everest (6,500 m) Altitude Junkies " the answer?

If so, according to the Altitude Junkie's website, no one by the names of Brad Jackson (Radson) nor Hoby Jackson summited with them this season.

[url=http://www.altitudejunkies.com/dispatcheverest10.html]Everest 2010 Expedition Dispatches

Dispatch #21 - May 25, 2010 – Base Camp

Five out of our seven climbers topped out on the Big E on the morning of the 23rd. The following climbers and their Sherpas reached the summit at the respective times.

Phil Crampton & Pasang Nima Sherpa - 7 AM
Jussi Juttien & Chheddar Sherpa - 8.12 AM
Anne-Mari Hyrylainen & Pasang Wongchu Sherpa - 8.15 AM
Ben Stuckey & Nima Neru Sherpa - 8.15 AM
Raphael Gernez & Pasang Dawa Sherpa

Our Team Members:
Phil Crampton (UK/USA)
Jani Einolander (Finland)
Raphael Gernez (France/USA)
Michael Herbert (UK)
Anne-Mari Hyrylainen (Finland)
Jussi Juutinen (Finland)
Ben Stuckey (USA)
Margaret Watroba (Australia)[/url]

Nor was there anyone by those names on their 2010 expedition list, period.


Interesting to say the least.

Mike Herbert died of HACE on this latest expedition...

http://www.alanarnette.com/news/2010/05 ... her-death/


Ahhh... found this from Adventures Global:

http://www.adventuresglobal.net/Forum/i ... topic=77.0

Don't know if it's official...

Damn!

How many companies and clients are there on that mountain at one time?????

And this....

http://www.adventuresglobal.net/Video/E ... -2010.html

After doing all this looking up, I can not believe all the people on that frkn mountain. My god. Ya'll call that climbing eh?

Holy shit.... I knew it was bad. But no way did I ever think it was this bad. Over 500 at one time in Base Camp. 500?

No wonder all these people are dying up there.

No thanks. I think I'll just remain here in this very quiet neck of the world and do all my posering alone with just a handful of close fellow posers.

twoshuzz wrote:Here yuh go, Chief.

Take a look at the members of the Australian team for yourself.

http://www.everest2010.com.au/Climber-Profiles.html

http://www.adventuresglobal.net/Forum/index.php?topic=77.0 - Take a look at the May 24th entry.

Dude...

Yeah.. I already posted it above....

http://www.adventuresglobal.net/Forum/i ... topic=77.0

What gets me though is this "Chris" thing that radson shared about and he being abandoned by his "Team". And then folks justifying it all....What is up with that shit???

Been doing lots of reading on all these Everest incidents this and the past couple of seasons. Seems that they are occurring more frequently every year. Why?

Like I posted earlier in this thread, could you imagine the International outcry had young Romero been abandoned as Peter and this Chris were... just imagine.

Gary Schenk wrote:

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.”

You bet... and the author dearly believed in taking care of all his people at any cost. He made it the law that NO ONE WILL EVER BE LEFT BEHIND... NOT ONE!

And it was to his credit that no one was ever left behind. Not a soul, regardless the circumstances. Believe me, they were far shittier than any that one gets themselves into on that hill by choice.

The Chief wrote:Am I the only one missing something in radson's story?

Probably yes.

Even for a non-English native speaker like me, Radson's story sounds as clear as spring water. Radson explained from his own experience that:

a) At a certain moment during the climb, Radson was physically and mentally able to notice another climber ("Chris") in need of help, and he indeed helped the best he could until the climber's own team took care of him ("Chris") and brought him ("Chris") safely back down.

b) Higher up on the mountain, Radson explains that he was physically and mentally not anymore able to help anybody, even his own wife, would have she requested some help.

I thing most climbers, who have climbed on 8000ers, especially the big 5, could tell a similar story.

I don't know how such as simple story can generate a controversy in the mind of some members, like assuming guides have abandoned clients, etc. There is nothing letting to presuppose this in Radson's story.

Definitely, I think some people are not interested to discuss in a constructive way a tragic accident, but just want to fuel the polemics about Himalayan climbing.

Edit: spelling

Bruno_Tibet wrote:Definitely, I think some people are not interested to discuss in a constructive way a tragic accident, but just want to fuel the polemics about Himalayan climbing.

+ 1

A reccurring theme on this site. Denigrating peoples accomplishments because they went on "guided" climbs. Or had porters.

IMO, there are mountains and then there are the Himalaya. Anyone who loves the mountains should experience them at least once.

I certainly wouldn't take seriously peoples opinion whose knowledge of Himalayan climbing is limited to the Krakauer or other books.

Thank you very much Bruno. A very succinct and accurate summary.

Bruno_Tibet wrote:

The Chief wrote:Am I the only one missing something in radson's story?

Probably yes.

Even for a non-English native speaker like me, Radson's story sounds as clear as spring water. Radson explained from his own experience that:

a) At a certain moment during the climb, Radson was physically and mentally able to notice another climber ("Chris") in need of help, and he indeed helped the best he could until the climber's own team took care of him ("Chris") and brought him ("Chris") safely back down.

b) Higher up on the mountain, Radson explains that he was physically and mentally not anymore able to help anybody, even if own wife, would have she requested some help.

I thing most climbers, who have climbed on 8000ers, especially the big 5, could tell a similar story.

I don't know how such as simple story can general a controversy in the mind of some members, like assuming guides have abandoned clients, etc. There is nothing letting to presuppose this in Radson's story.

Definitely, I think some people are not interested to discuss in a constructive way a tragic accident, but just want to fuel the polemics about Himalayan climbing.