"After the first glass, you see things as you wish they were. After the second, you see things as they are not. Finally, you see things as they really are, which is the most horrible thing in the world."
--Oscar Wilde on Absinthe
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peterbud - Jul 3, 2009 12:44 pm - Hasn't voted
Why nottake over the Europe's highpoints list?
As to Ukraine, Gora/Hora means "mountain", and G vs H (also in Hoverla/Goverla) is a spelling variant.
And BTW, congratulations ;)
Wolfgang Schaub - Aug 19, 2009 6:04 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Why notWhy not? Because it contains errors, as you can see when you read my article
peterbud - Aug 19, 2009 6:31 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Why notThe point in taking over that page is that you'd be able to correct those errors, but of course it's up to you :)
Wolfgang Schaub - Aug 27, 2009 6:30 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Why nothttp://www.summitpost.org/view_object.php?object_id=544743&confirm_post=7 tells you why NOT.
toc - Jul 3, 2009 2:53 pm - Hasn't voted
Free Territory of Trieste?Highest point was Monte Castellaro/Veliko Gradiš?e.
Wolfgang Schaub - Jul 4, 2009 4:35 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Free Territory of Trieste?If one reads the 1947 peace treaty, article 22 - http://www.freeterritorytrieste.com/pax.html - one comes to the conclusion that Monte Castellaro/Veliko Gradisce did NOT belong to the Free Territory of Trieste, while Monte Cocusso/Kokos did. Refer also to http://xoomer.virgilio.it/venerdibike/cocusso_uno_file/cocusso_uno.htm: Cocusso il monte più alto nella Provincia di Trieste. And the map at http://xoomer.virgilio.it/venerdibike/cocusso_uno_file/COCUSSO_LIGHT.jpg
McCannster - Jul 4, 2009 1:17 pm - Voted 10/10
Great Job......on your accomplishment Wolfgang. You have earned sufficient bragging rights!
Corax - Jul 5, 2009 7:00 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Great Job...I second that!
Arthur Digbee - Jul 4, 2009 2:20 pm - Voted 10/10
Congratulations!Have you signed all the SP summit logs yet? ;)
visentin - Jul 5, 2009 11:01 am - Voted 10/10
Andorra ? Lichenstein ?Have you climbed them ? Congratulations for your trip, but such "list" sounds a bit odd for me. Mountains are almost always borders, hence all the "troubles" as you described... I'd rather climb all summits of all European main ranges, it would make more sense... For example Aneto, Pyrenees's highest, is not any country's highest top, however it is certainly more challenging than Andorra.
Wolfgang Schaub - Jul 5, 2009 12:27 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Andorra ? Liechtenstein ?"It would make more sense..." That exactly is the question. As I said, my program has more to do with politics than with mountaineering. The challenge is often to reach the mountain in question, rather than climb it. The "sense" is to learn about Europe in all its political facets. Which sense lies in mountaineering at all? Everybody to his/her taste.
visentin - Jul 6, 2009 8:07 am - Voted 10/10
Re: Andorra ? Liechtenstein ?I understand, but please explain to me what kind of satisfaction you get when you "climb" to 24 Chemin des Révoires (after buying a train ticket & hotel in Monaco) ?
Wolfgang Schaub - Jul 6, 2009 10:25 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Andorra ? Liechtenstein ?Very simple, Visentin: It's the sheer craziness of the act. Mountain climbing via lift. Exploring where exactly the border of Monaco runs. Identifying the place. Sniffing around on private property for a highest point in the corner of a garden. Being expelled by the owner - all this together a completely novel set of adventures. Finally it is the feeling that I am the ONLY one doing things like that. I am exquisite, exclusive in that respect.
Later in your life, when you are getting older and worn out, you will discover the pleasures of nonsense. Climbing is applied nonsense. And a nice, attractive form. I just explore the spectrum to its fullest.
visentin - Jul 6, 2009 11:05 am - Voted 10/10
Re: Andorra ? Liechtenstein ?I understand :)
What about my question, what are Andorra and Liechtenstein tops ?
You may include in your list, just to make sure not to loose accidentally your title in a near future, the tops of:
- Turkish Cyprus
- Serbian Voivodine
- Herzegovina
- Bosnia (those 2 if you considered Bosnia&Herzegovina as 1)
- Transdniestria
- Abkhazia
- High Karabah
... :)
Wolfgang Schaub - Jul 6, 2009 11:59 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Andorra ? Liechtenstein ?All of them climbed and covered in my list: http://www.gipfel-und-grenzen.de/die_hoechsten.php?sprache=EN
Andorra: # 24, Liechtenstein # 34, Turkish Cyprus: # 71, Vojvodina: Guduricki vrh, covered in the chapter of Serbia (since the Vojvodina is not truly autonomous she will not get her stand-alone chapter), Transnistria: # 108, Bosnia: Republika Srpska: # 41, Croatian/muslim Federation: # 44, jointly administered area of Brcko: in chapter 83.
Abkhasia and Nagorny Karabakh are not considered Europe in my definition. The Caucasus main ridge forms the border; others may see this differently, but somewhere I have to draw a line.
Satisfied?
Klenke - Jul 8, 2009 12:40 pm - Hasn't voted
Great accomplishmentI suppose to be able to account for the uncertainties in defining all of the true country highpoints (colonial islands as true highpoints, triangulation uncertainties, etc.), it would be wise to cover all of those bases too so no one can refute you with "but but" comments. So if there are 49 countries there may actually be 50-something total tops you have to visit.
Also, it's only bragging if you use bold font in your report. And of course to ask the question in the first place. ;-)
Wolfgang Schaub - Jul 8, 2009 1:58 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Great accomplishmentRest assured, Klenke, to account for the uncertainties I had to climb 4 mountains in Montenegro, 2 in Norway, visit 2 summits of the same mountain in Sweden, and walk up to 3 in Lithuania, 3 in Denmark and 2 in Luxembourg, not to forget Mont Blanc de Courmayeur. All done.
There is too much superficialty in unveiling the most important, ultimate mystery of Europe. As a scientist I cannot bear this. Nevertheless, all who have to offer more "but, buts" are cordially invited to challenge me.
Joerg Marretsch - Jul 9, 2009 1:22 pm - Voted 10/10
Congratulation .... for your collection. I read your list a few times in the last years.
I`m at the beginning of the race (18 European high points).
Wolfgang Schaub - Jul 9, 2009 4:47 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Congratulation ..Good luck! It's never too late.
jimorothy - Jul 29, 2009 9:53 am - Hasn't voted
"First?"Well done. You came to a similar conclusion about the high points that we did after research. We completed Europe's High points in 2007, making Rachel the first known woman. However, we don't believe we were the first people, that honour would go to the dude known as Gingefullen, even though his list might have varied somewhat when he first did it in 1999 - he has since done some clearing up exercises and had new states finished around 2007 I think, there were also some Norwegians chasing them and also another British guy after Gingefullen. We have written the Europe's High Points guide, available to buy on October the 15th at various sites and stores including Amazon, so it might be of interest to you. Anyway, well done, I bet you had a hell of an adventure like we did.