Marines stranded on Skyline Trail SJ

by **Deb** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:45 pm

2_climbaxes wrote:
Deb wrote:If it was a reserve unit, you know damn well those kids come from all walks of life 26 days out of a month. One freaky weekend of "training" isn't going to get the altitude in their veins or instill hydration when most of them are probably sitting up 'til 3AM drinking assloads of cheap beer.
Shame on the Officers for not having a SNCO in the mix to really take care of those troops! And as far as what's-his-face degrading today's Corps - F U! I lead some ridiculously talented "kids" in Iraq and I'd walk thru fire with them! One ramshackle group, does not the Corps make.

Deb, point taken and I apologize for any offense to you.

I was responding to Chief's insult to The Corps which he has now edited out. I was not degrading today's Corps, that other guy was. And I would walk through fire with them, or FOR them, too.

And I agree, shame on the Officers for not taking care of those troops by what ever means necessary. As Chief eloquently said, "Dehydration, WTF?'

We all know the importance of hydration and planning. Both were drilled into my thick skull 21 years ago.

It looks like both were overlooked here. It's bad enough PR when climbers have to berescued, but it looks even worse to the general public when those in uniform need to be rescued and it shouldn't have happened.

Noted. I retract my "F U" :wink:

by **The Chief** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:02 pm

Just got off the phone with my old SERE Sgt Major Shipmate up the road at Pickle Meadows.

Appears it was a Reserve Company from the So Cal area on a multi-day Resistance Training evolution in preparation for all things, their upcoming scheduled SERE Class this December, at Warner Springs. He doesn't know the complete story yet. But the incident is under full investigation.

He said he'll call me and let me know the skinny when he gets some "Official" word.

What can you find out Deb. Be interesting to see what actually happened.

by **The Chief** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:00 pm

Gary Schenk wrote:I wouldn't bet on that necessarily. Do you remember that kid they forgot out by Amboy? He was directing traffic at some point, and when they all packed up, they forgot him. They noticed he was missing later, but they thought he was out goofing off and covered for him for several days.

Meanwhile after waiting at his post for a couple of days, he tried to walk to Amboy and didn't quite make it, poor kid.

Sometimes folks aren't forgotten. Rather intentionally left behind to see if they can figure out the deal and get their asses to their assigned destination.

Seen/Did that several times in the 1st and 2nd Phases of both SERE and CSAR Survival School.

Part of the learning module curve.

by **MoapaPk** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:48 pm

http://articles.latimes.com/1988-12-27/ ... rine-corps

Back to Skyline trail...

Since it was an official trip, I'd bet these guys were heavily-laden. I won't think twice about the trail with my normal hiking gear; but I sure wouldn't want to try it with heavy boots, camos, and 50 lbs of stuff. I'd guess they were not given much opportunity to pick a natural pace, either.

by **The Chief** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:02 pm

MoapaPk wrote:http://articles.latimes.com/1988-12-27/news/mn-812_1_marine-corps

Very unfortunate indeed.

But, and a very big but... These young Marines were in prep training for deployment for Combat ops in Afghanistan/Iraq.

Combat Training scenarios need to be as close to the In Theater environment as possible.

Granted the CnC screwed up royally. Post Op musters should have revealed that he was missing well within an hour of their departure.

But we can not take the LA Times article to heart as to the "severity and harhness" of the conditions. It is and should continue to be an intricate component of the pre-deployment training protocol. Especially for any green Marines that are going into combat for their first time.

by **MoapaPk** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:26 am

I'm thinking that maybe it's not such a bad thing that this (Skyline Trail rescue) happened. Too bad about the expense... but there is nothing like a spectacular failure to make one aware of limits and the need for improvement. I'd rather have this happen here, than in Afghanistan.

by JJ » Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:52 am

TacoDelRio wrote:
JJ wrote:Correct me if I am wrong but 5 marines or army soldiers had to be pulled off of Mt. Massive on their way up to assist in the recue of the downed Blackhawk. They were carrying 50lb. packs and could not physically go any further. Outside of the 10th Mountain Division, I don't think these guys are conditioned for climbing mountains. I don't care how much running, workouts and weight lifting you do, it requires you actually climbing mountains with weight to pull these things off. Before anyone asks, yes I was in the Army.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't 10th strictly air-assault? AFAIK, they do not do any mountaineering training etc.

173nd Infantry (NG) in Vermont is the RA mountaineering training group.

The 10th Mountain Division train in mountaineering. I have worked along side them while guiding climbing. I have never heard of the 10th being strictly air-assault. They do train for air-assualt but as far as I know that is only one aspect of their training. I have talked to these guys and have heard all about their time in Afghanistan. When I was in the Army I was in more of a non-combat role. These guys are hardened mountaineers.

by **Captain Beefheart** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:46 am

The 10th Marine Regiment is an artillery regiment. The "10th Mountain Division" is the U.S. Army.

by **Cy Kaicener** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:27 am

We finally have the official rescue report from RMRU on the Skyline rescue.
http://rmru.org/missions/2009/2009-016.html

by **ridgeline** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:11 pm

Sounds like they were just thirsty, was this really a rescue?

by **The Chief** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:41 pm

2_climbaxes wrote:
The Chief wrote:
MoapaPk wrote:http://articles.latimes.com/1988-12-27/news/mn-812_1_marine-corps

Very unfortunate indeed.

But, and a very big but... These young Marines were in prep training for deployment for Combat ops in Afghanistan/Iraq.

Combat Training scenarios need to be as close to the In Theater environment as possible.

Granted the CnC screwed up royally. Post Op musters should have revealed that he was missing well within an hour of their departure.

But we can not take the LA Times article to heart as to the "severity and harhness" of the conditions. It is and should continue to be an intricate component of the pre-deployment training protocol. Especially for any green Marines that are going into combat for their first time.

Hmm, they were training for Afghanistan/Iraq in 1987?

Ill-Trained to Survive Heat - Marine's Death in Desert: Mistakes Led to Tragedy
By RONALD B. TAYLOR, Times Staff Writer|December 27, 1988

During that entire late 80's period, the Desert Warfare Ctr, not only at 29 Palms but also at Fort Irwin, began intense training for possible OPS in the entire Persian Gulf Area. Including ops in Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan. Especially for Iran and Pakistan at the height of the Russian conflict within Afghanistan.

But then you would have known that if your were actually on Active Duty during that time period and in the mix.

Here is one incident that initiated that preparation and desert training. I know, I was there on the 65 Boat running the deck...

Operation Preying Mantis.

Marines in the Gulf....April '88

Marines stranded on Skyline Trail SJ

Marines stranded on Skyline Trail SJ

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