by Outside » Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:43 am
by outofstep80 » Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:52 pm
by outofstep80 » Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:03 pm
MikeTX wrote:there are far worse records she could've attempt to break.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_yo ... th_mothers
by outofstep80 » Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:18 pm
Dingus Milktoast wrote:Outside wrote:you're only a hero if your successful.
That is a western notion, and mostly American and mostly in the last 50-years. It certainly bears no truth to the classical definition of hero.
DMT
by tonyo » Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:38 pm
outofstep80 wrote:
Couldn't agree more. Ernest Shackleton hands down, in my opionion, was a hero. Did not even come close to success with regards to his expedition. But he brought back his entire crew alive. I highly recommend the book to anyone who has not read it. It's the "Endurance Expedition".
by Alpinist » Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:40 pm
by simonov » Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:43 pm
by The Chief » Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:47 pm
by Damien Gildea » Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:47 pm
by The Chief » Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:52 pm
Damien Gildea wrote:And Mark Stratford made the 4th ascent of Mt Paget, highest on South Georgia, in 1994, then years later was killed serving in Iraq. More than a few good young British and European climbers never made it out of WW2.
More recently, Mark Evison never got the chance to go south: http://explorersweb.com/polar/news.php?id=18664
by outofstep80 » Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:53 pm
tonyo wrote:outofstep80 wrote:
Couldn't agree more. Ernest Shackleton hands down, in my opionion, was a hero. Did not even come close to success with regards to his expedition. But he brought back his entire crew alive. I highly recommend the book to anyone who has not read it. It's the "Endurance Expedition".
I have great respect for these kids and what they're doing, and in the let them go/don't let them go debate, I'm on the side of those who say let them.
But something that's bothered me for a while is the way we call anyone who has done something brave a "hero". In my mind, "hero" is reserved for someone who's done something brave for someone else. A person who follows their dream and does something great or brave for themselves is not a hero. Shackleton was a hero. Hillary was a hero, but not for climbing Everest; he was a hero for what he did humanitarian-wise in Nepal. Many people reading this have done a lot more that's heroic than sailing solo around the world (not to diminish what this young lady is doing, by any means) or climbing Everest. I think we need to start saving the title "hero" for those who really deserve it.
by The Chief » Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:04 pm
FortMental wrote:As for Abby's parents, they should be commended for taking the time to take their kids out sailing and engaging them with an interesting and rewarding pastime. They should be commended for instilling her with skills and independence. Solo sailing around the world may have been Abby's dream, and that's WAY cool, but sending her off young, late, and alone was clearly her parents twisting their gifts and Abby's dreams into a publicity seeking stunt.
by outofstep80 » Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:11 pm
Dingus Milktoast wrote:tonyo wrote:In my mind, "hero" is reserved for someone who's done something brave for someone else. A person who follows their dream and does something great or brave for themselves is not a hero. Shackleton was a hero. Hillary was a hero, but not for climbing Everest; he was a hero for what he did humanitarian-wise in Nepal. Many people reading this have done a lot more that's heroic than sailing solo around the world (not to diminish what this young lady is doing, by any means) or climbing Everest. I think we need to start saving the title "hero" for those who really deserve it.
This is the modern definition of hero - selfless sacrifice.
That is not the classical Greek definition. The classic Greek Hero, Hercules, did what he did for himself. Most of the Greek heros were bastards, face it. But they did great things.
Weird how time changes perspective that way.
DMT
by The Chief » Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:26 pm
Dingus Milktoast wrote:This is the modern definition of hero - selfless sacrifice.
That is not the classical Greek definition. The classic Greek Hero, Hercules, did what he did for himself. Most of the Greek heros were batsards, face it. But they did great things.
Weird how time changes perspective that way.
DMT
by cp0915 » Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:33 pm
The Chief wrote:Far better a man that serves and dies for his nation, regardless the cause, than any man that goes after their own selfish goals.
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