Kahuna wrote:BTW: If "Trad" Pro (i.e. CAMS cus Stoppers should not be "walking". If they are, then one has a more dire issue that requires addressing), is properly placed, "walking" is a moot point thus the use of "draws" is adequate. Right?
mattyj wrote:Kahuna wrote:BTW: If "Trad" Pro (i.e. CAMS cus Stoppers should not be "walking". If they are, then one has a more dire issue that requires addressing), is properly placed, "walking" is a moot point thus the use of "draws" is adequate. Right?
I don't follow this. Are you suggesting that only poorly placed gear is susceptible to walking?
1. I do hope you realize that "Stoppers" should never "walk". If they do, then the placement is totally suspect in the first place.
2. If a CAM, regardless the Manufacture, is placed in an even Parrallel Crack system, it will "walk". That is a given. Ironically, if one utilizes a "4-6" draw" instead of a 24" standard "runner" unless it is applied in the shortened Alpine Draw length (then it is no different than a standard draw), it will allow the CAM to possibly walk the entire 24" length and making it almost impossible to be retrieved by the 2nd.
3. For my original point, when a CAM is properly placed in an other than above scenario #2, it will not "wallk" due to a natural "stop" inside the crack preventing it from doing so. When placing a CAM in cracks, I almost always locate a natural stop in the crack within a reasonable depth that allows for this measure. Amazingly, I have found many variables in cracks such as a inwardly tappering crack system or a inward protusion or jammed rock etc that prevents the CAM from walking any deeper than where I originally placed it.
Please, for the love of God, sport and gym climbers please STOP using dogbone quickdraws to clip into trad gear.
Vitaliy M. wrote:
I think if you use it properly, it will not walk too much. Indian creek for example...how many people do you see clipping straight into cams? Many many many. Most of the people i see climbing clip shoulder length slings that are still doubled into pieces...how much different is that from a draw?
I think quickdraws should stay far away from pure trad ...
Kahuna wrote:I think quickdraws should stay far away from pure trad ...
John Long, Bob Gaines and the late Craig Lueben seem to believe and practice differently as they insist that utilizing a "quick draw" attached to wired stoppers in a Trad Climbing" scenario is the "safe" way to go. And they can also safely be applied to any TCU/FCU placements.
This evidenced in the seven different editions of their world reknowned series.. How to Rock Climb and Climbing Anchors.
But then what do them old Trad Climbing/Stonemaster bastards know about any of this... huh?
Vitaliy M. wrote:From the tone of OP's post, I am kind of surprised he put 'sport' and 'gym' in the same sentence with 'climbers.' Unbelievable.
Quickdraws are clipped to the nut wire by the ascending climber and the rope threads through the quickdraw.
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