Skier Brian Carrico has now come out with his own account of survival on Mt San Jacinto in a blizzard and his subsequent rescue
http://www.pe.com/localnews/stories/PE_ ... 97680.html
The whole background thread
http://www.mtsanjacinto.info/viewtopic. ... 4946#24946

lebeelebee wrote:Damn people are lazy!

Got that right ..

lebeelebee wrote:If you go DOWNHILL from Jacinto in ANY DIRECTION you will find both warmth and civilization. He was on SKIS no less!! All he had to do was let gravity do its work!

Now I understand there were blizzard conditions at times, which is a great time to hole up somewhere. But it was decent enough out for him to wander around looking for the TRAM for DAYS! Damn people are lazy!

There are some seriously steep slopes on most sides of the plateau up there. With that much fresh snow he could easily have killed himself in an avalanche before he got down to safer terrain. As for finding the tram, it's not all that easy. With all the forest up there, it's impossible to see the tram unless you are on one of the peaks or in the near vicinity. I was up there in early spring via Snow Creek and went back to the tram ahead of the rest of my party. Rather than follow the regular tracks, I figured I could cut a beeline for the tram which was visible from the summit. I wandered around for at least an hour more than necessary because I couldn't find the tram once I was in the trees, and this was over easy spring snow conditions.

That said, the article mentions the guy used to be in Ski Patrol which normally would suggest pretty good skiing skills. And a compass and map could have made things a whole lot easier (as they would have for me ).

Space blanket, esbit stove, al mug, lighter, extra 2000 calories. All weighs under 2 lbs and costs under 30 dollars.

With a storm forecast to come in about mid-day, he was silly to go up there on a ski trip. A friend and I were going to go MTBing that same day in the nearby Santa Ana Mountains, but cancelled it the day before due to the forecast showing a storm coming in mid-day (it did!). He was a former ski patroller, but that doesn't really mean much; it seems that was years ago, and it really would be no help in the backcountry if he only worked at a ski resort.

Just dumb decision making . . . check the weather forecast for where you're going and postpone your trip if you have to (especially if its nearby as this one was).

phydeux wrote:With a storm forecast to come in about mid-day, he was silly to go up there on a ski trip.

I don't want to judge this guy's decisions because I don't always do the smartest things (who am I to judge), but it does seem like heading out into a storm isn't the best thing to do. Weather sometimes changes fast; so we need to be prepared for a storm, but heading into one on purpose does increase the risk of problems. Also, it's pretty hard for Search and Rescue to get to anyone in stormy conditions; so if something happens and you can't come out you might be stuck for a while.

Patroller and older individual with family.... should have known better than to go out in such well in advanced "FORCASTED" dangerous weather conditions without the proper gear to sustain himself. Better yet, should have stayed home. The report states that he never bothered to check the forecast. Figures.

IN lieu of ignorance he put others in harms way to save his selfish ass. Just like cleaning your weapon without first checking to see if it is loaded or not.

Absolutely no sympathy from me. Shear stupidity on his part, nothing less. As I always say, "Stupidity should indeed be painful!"


Going fish'n...

Ha!

A comment on the Press Enterprise article....

Guest
Maybe God will make STUPIDITY painful. The guy won't survive that!
2 days ago, 4:42:27 PM– Flag – Like – Reply – Delete – Edit – Moderate

Going skiing...

KathyW wrote:

phydeux wrote:With a storm forecast to come in about mid-day, he was silly to go up there on a ski trip.

I don't want to judge this guy's decisions because I don't always do the smartest things (who am I to judge), but it does seem like heading out into a storm isn't the best thing to do. Weather sometimes changes fast; so we need to be prepared for a storm, but heading into one on purpose does increase the risk of problems. Also, it's pretty hard for Search and Rescue to get to anyone in stormy conditions; so if something happens and you can't come out you might be stuck for a while.

I think you guys hit on the primary thing - the weather forecast. Sometimes it's fun to go out and battle the elements, but mostly when you're doing something easy on familiar terrain. The forecasts these days are amazingly accurate, even compared to just 20 years ago. And it's so easy that there's really no excuse. I'm constantly checking forecasts up to the time I leave the door to head to the hills and haven't been surprised by weather in years. Of course my next outing will now be marked by sudden thunderstorms and a bolt of lightning...

lebeelebee wrote:If you go DOWNHILL from Jacinto in ANY DIRECTION you will find both warmth and civilization. He was on SKIS no less!! All he had to do was let gravity do its work!

San Jacinto is a big, convoluted, precipitous mountain. The elevation gain from desert floor to summit is about 10,000 feet. The other day it took me 9 hours to descend from 5500 feet to 1200 feet on the north side over terrain I had just ascended. I was wearing comfortable hiking shoes, not ski boots. It was horrendously brushy between 4200 and 5500 feet.

Anyway, I've made some terrible decisions in the mountains. That said, if I understand the situation correctly, I think his biggest mistake was not having a map and compass (and knowledge of how to use them). A few weeks ago, I had to use map and compass to navigate to the upper tram station in the dark. Had I followed my instincts, I would have followed a drainage away from the tram station. Even with the big light on top of the station, I didn't see it until I was within 200 yards of it.

This is a good learning experience for everyone concerned. I was very relieved that it had a happy ending.

Bob Burd wrote:I think you guys hit on the primary thing - the weather forecast. Sometimes it's fun to go out and battle the elements, but mostly when you're doing something easy on familiar terrain. The forecasts these days are amazingly accurate, even compared to just 20 years ago. And it's so easy that there's really no excuse. I'm constantly checking forecasts up to the time I leave the door to head to the hills and haven't been surprised by weather in years. Of course my next outing will now be marked by sudden thunderstorms and a bolt of lightning...

Seems to me that's already happened, Bob-a-loo...

MooseTracks wrote:

Bob Burd wrote:I'm constantly checking forecasts up to the time I leave the door to head to the hills and haven't been surprised by weather in years. Of course my next outing will now be marked by sudden thunderstorms and a bolt of lightning...

Seems to me that's already happened, Bob-a-loo...

Yes, but the weather was no surprise. I simply chose to ignore it, much to my detriment.

Its good to get forensic details of trips that end up with someone getting lost, injured or needing SAR help. That way more people can benefit from the lessons learned.

But sometimes we don't have all of the details so we tend to speculate. The speculation leads to second guessing the decisions made. The second guessing then leads to judging or criticizing the person, or persons involved. For everyone who suggests he's a dumb-ass for going up in a storm, going solo, or going without a GPS or for thinking he could rely on a cell phone, there's hundreds more who think we're all a bunch of dumb-asses for going into the mountains regardless of how prepared we are.

He may have done some things wrong but he also knew enough to dig snow shelters and survive two nights in the snow.

PLB's are probably good to have as a last resort but the concept of PLB's is that you're gonna rely on someone else to come and find you. Your first means of survival should be based on self reliance. In addtion to always being prepared to spend an extra day or two on the mountain, my suggestion is to use a GPS navigation unit to supplement a map & compass. If you end up in white-out conditions you could still find your way even if you can't directly navigate by seeing visual landmarks. On San J. from the tram, having two way-points in your GPS, Round Valley and Long Valley could get you headed back in the right direction.

Regarding having skis and just skiing down, The people who took the time to read the reports would know that he tried sking down until he realized he was lost. After spending the first night in a snow cave he got up the next day and found that he'd lost his skis under the new snow that accumulated overnight. I've momentarily lost a ski before when it released while I was descending. In white-out conditions with fresh snow dumping it can be next to impossible to find a lost ski. It can be pretty scary if you're dependent on your skis for travel.

Note to myself and all other backcountry skiers: If you have to bivy during a heavy snow storm do one of the following,
1. Stick your ski tails firmly into the snow so they'll stand up and you can find them later if even if there's two feet of new snow. Arrange your skis into an "X" pattern.
2. If the snow is not deep enough, or not conslidated enough to stand your skis up, lash your skis to a tree where you'll be able to find them later.
3. If your skis have holes in the tips (most backcountry skis do), tie or clip a cord, strap or line that keeps you connected you to your skis.
4. Or, take your skis with you into your snow shelter.

This could apply to back country travel on snowshoes or split-boards as well. This is not intended as a criticism but is an opportunity to learn from last week's experience.

I have no problem with solo travel....I have no problem travelling thru a storm.... I don't carry a GPS or a PLB (ever)......I did read the full report and was left absolutely speechless with this man's stupidity....(one thing to temporarily lose your bearings, but this "skier" lost his skis overnight, I guess it never occured to him that it was snowing and they might get buried???? really???)....sometimes the lesson to be learned is that this person simply did not not belong in the mountains....perhaps he should have recognized his complete lack of mountain sense and avoided putting others in danger......Some might see this as an opportunity to learn but I can only see it as an unprepared, selfish, delusional individual who would best stay down in the flatlands until he is ready to be self sufficient ......thank goodness mother nature is not PC and doesn't feel the need to make everyone feel "good" about themselves and their mistakes....