Pesky problem-- frozen boots overnight...

by **hikerbrian** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:14 pm

FortMental wrote:It's too easy to think that it takes $500 of new gear to solve this problem. Truly, all it takes is $20.

I think this is spot on. I bought a lot of boots before I found a system that worked, and I really didn't need to spend so much money. But that was pre-interwebs. Here's what I've found. YMMV, obviously.
1. Get something with a removable liner. Put the liner in your sleeping bag at night.
2. Plastic or leather doesn't matter much if leather is waterproofed and you follow 1 above.
3. Plastic boots aren't that comfortable. I wear mine only when the terrain dictates - if ice axe/crampons are REQUIRED, then I pull out my Koflach Verticals.
4. I ALWAYS wear vapor barrier liners in the snow. Smartwool expedition socks next to skin, then plastic bags (bread bags or grocery bags work great), then boot liners. For me, nothing has come close to this system in terms of warmth and comfort. As Rob says though, this system doesn't work for everyone.

I implore you to try the cheap alternatives before you spend a bunch of money on more boots.

by **thespiffy** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:21 am

hikerbrian wrote:
FortMental wrote:It's too easy to think that it takes $500 of new gear to solve this problem. Truly, all it takes is $20.

I think this is spot on. I bought a lot of boots before I found a system that worked, and I really didn't need to spend so much money. But that was pre-interwebs. Here's what I've found. YMMV, obviously.
1. Get something with a removable liner. Put the liner in your sleeping bag at night.
2. Plastic or leather doesn't matter much if leather is waterproofed and you follow 1 above.
3. Plastic boots aren't that comfortable. I wear mine only when the terrain dictates - if ice axe/crampons are REQUIRED, then I pull out my Koflach Verticals.
4. I ALWAYS wear vapor barrier liners in the snow. Smartwool expedition socks next to skin, then plastic bags (bread bags or grocery bags work great), then boot liners. For me, nothing has come close to this system in terms of warmth and comfort. As Rob says though, this system doesn't work for everyone.

I implore you to try the cheap alternatives before you spend a bunch of money on more boots.

All of this sounds like solid advice, thank you.

It's amazing what simple, small changes can provide you with increased comfort and safety, thank you for sharing your experience with me.

Like I said earlier, I don't post much here, but I'm amazed at the response I've had thus far... to even a rather noobish question. I can't thank everyone enough.

by **thespiffy** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:25 am

1000Pks wrote:If you have concerns about toxicity, you might not wish to drink the water poured hot into a BPA-leaching plastic bottle. Stainless steel bottles, if you can afford them, would conduct the heat faster and dry out the inner boot more efficiently, I'd think. Although with boiling water they may be too hot to handle, at first.

I don't get sweaty feet, so maybe that's why VBLs don't work for me. I guess if you're asking about frozen boots you are a bit of a beginner, so the input about gaitors. I'd be out for a week in sub-freezing lows and never thought much of cold feet, then. My leather boots were just left out in the snow and how they felt when I put them back on, that's just how it works, and with exertion, my feet would just warm up, then, so I wouldn't be cold. My then wool socks would always be damp, but they do retain some insulation value. No other way to go, back then.

People would worry about frostbite and frozen toes, but here in the Sierra it doesn't get too extreme. Now, it seldom gets down to single digits, and though I've been out then, suffered just slight worry and some discomfort. If you worry that your toes may be freezing, just try to check them. I found usually that they are just cold, and I still can wiggle them (a good sign). You get the hang of it as far as winter camping, and I had the MLC SC back then to advise me. When we had official snow camping trips and some moderately responsible guidance. Though I had to do my own snow camping to gain enough experience to attend a snow camp, incidentally learned during the deadliest storm that ever hit the Sierra (about 1971).

What you described was nearly my exact experience, after some exertion my boots "thawed" -- I was always able to wiggle my toes, which told me I was still within some realm of safety.

You're correct in your assumption regarding me being a beginner, at least in the realm of sub-zero extended exposure.

What could have taken me several trips to learn you all have taught me in the span of one thread, thank you again.

I've never had such a useful, responsive community.

by **mconnell** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:31 pm

1000Pks wrote:Plastic boots, being rigid, are hamburger makers (for your heels and other spots) if you use them for plain walking.

Depends on the boots. I've hiked several miles a day for a week in Koflach Vert's with no problems. If the boots are well designed and fit right, they won't trash your feet/shins. I wouldn't recommend hiking in them due to the soles being stiff, which means that it jars the hell out of your body, but a good boot that fits won't hurt your feet.

by **Brad Marshall** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:32 am

1000Pks wrote:Plastic boots, being rigid, are hamburger makers (for your heels and other spots) if you use them for plain walking.

I have actually found plastics to be more comfortable and if you pair them up with Intuition liners you'll rarely have hot spots, they don't bang your shins and the liners don't freeze in cold temps because they're closed-cell foam and don't absorb water.

Case in point my wife purchased a brand new pair of Koflach Degres, we fit them with a pair of brand new Intuition liners and the first time she wore them was to the summit of Aconcagua with no hot spots or blisters.

by **rockymtnclimber** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:19 am

Well, my problem with ice cube boots comes primarly from internal moisture, but my Lowa Cristalos tend to ice up a bit on the outside, too. I will put them in my sleeping bag to keep them thawed out (or just my Koflach liners, if I'm in plastics). But one thing I've done with some success is get the boots real cozy with my stove in the evenings. An hour of melting snow gives the boots time to at least get rid of some moisture. And doing the same when you cook breakfast helps thaw them a bit. Three things to remember:

1. It will depend on the stove setup you've got, as to how well this works.

2. Check the boots' temperature often, to ensure you don't have singed or melted footwear.

3. Though I always have and probably will cook in my vestibule when I'm in snow, I'm pretty sure it's still not recommended. Use caution!

I've tried the hot water bottle in the boots (more worried about hypothermia than BPA), but I find that if it's cold enough to give me boot problems, it does tend to freeze my bottles. The hot water bottles usually sleep with me in the sleeping bag, too.

Just throw together 4 or 5 of the suggestions from this thread and I'm sure you'll have toasty toes.

by **Brad Marshall** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:45 pm

thespiffy wrote:
Brad Marshall wrote:Have you tried pouring boiling water in your Nalgene bottles and putting the bottles in your boots just before going to bed. Should help dry them out and you'll have water ready for the morning.

I did think about this, considered it that is. But, was under the assumption no matter how hot that water is, 7 hours @ 10F = frozen water. Though it could dry them out enough to make the boots less uncomfortable and ice block like in the AM.

Sorry but I missed this one. I usually climb with a partner and found that if you keep your boots, or anything else you don't want to freeze for that matter, beside your sleeping bag in between you and your partner they shouldn't freeze. Also, climbers usually have lots of spare clothing to cover the boots and provide good insulation to keep the heat in.

Pesky problem-- frozen boots overnight...

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