Daria wrote:The irony of this whole thread is that by criticizing Bob's methods, there is an unintentional depositing of an extra layer of demands, restrictions, and and regulations. Guy's initial proposition for minimal moderator interference, if implemented, would take the form of another regulation and modification of behavior and therefore someone's freedom of expression would be restricted. If this is the end result, the initial sentiments that favor the least amount of disruption is somewhat undermined. Rules can be a little bit of a slippery slope especially since the basis for many of them rest on interpretative grounds.

I personally find it amusing when moderators show some personality, it keeps the forums less artificial, less robotic, and more lively. There was no loss with the slicing of the thread in question, as the stuff sent to off route was mostly junk. Although I'll admit, it did shift things to a more somber mood, which may affect individuals sense of spontaneity and overall mischief.

The more this site manages to replicate realistic dynamics of interaction the better, and realistic dynamics of social interaction involve a fundamental element of unfairness, and the best we can do is shit in our diapers in protest.

This is just my take on it, forgive me if my feeble brain cannot process the politics of it all.

WHAT?

workmanflock wrote:Words like cancer belong with words like Nazi in that they should be restricted to Nazis and people having cancer. Strong words leave lasting impressions that the owner of the words may not realize.

I have cancer, and don't know what you're talking about. "Restricted"? Isn't that what this forum is about in the first place? Your second sentence, of course, is right on, but your usage of "restricted"--if I'm understanding you correctly--is nonsense!

Daria wrote:The more this site manages to replicate realistic dynamics of interaction the better, and realistic dynamics of social interaction involve a fundamental element of unfairness, and the best we can do is shit in our diapers in protest.

...realistic dynamics of social interaction involve a fundamental element of unfairness... You left out that those "realistic dynamics of social interaction" also involve a fundamental element of fairness.

...and the best we can do is shit in our diapers in protest. If you're going to be vague, you might at least do it eloquently. That way you could fool us into thinking you had something to say.

Guyzo wrote:
(I have a hard time expressing my point while writing, my wife, a english teacher has been working on me for years to improve)

This is sad, because the topic of the thread, was getting close to the core of why we climb. Understanding "why" is important to me. It is something I wish to explore with other climbers.

Guy Keesee

Hey Guy;
I think your above quote really gets at the heart of the matter, and I can certainly relate to your sentiment.
If I might make a suggestion...take the best of what was in that thread, and put it in an article...the topic interests me also, and I have written candidly on this site about why I climb, then
many in this community joined in the conversation in the comments section following my articles. Some of the comments were a bit off base, but generally speaking, the ensuing conversations
were fascinating, and insightful.
One of the huge advantages I found with this approach, is that I had time to consider well my comments and statements, I have even asked other members [Bob Sihler, amongst others]
to edit my articles prior to publishing.
Also, the people who commented on my writings had taken the time to read, and consider my thoughts, and their input was heartfelt.

Cheers

One thing I can say for certain about Bob Sihler {whom I respect immensely}, is that his contributions and actions that I have witnessed on this site have been exemplary, and I wish to give him a very
hearty "Well Done Sir", along with a big "Thank You" for taking on the difficult job of "elf".

Wow, you guys need a hobby, or something. You should try going for a hike once in a while. It can clear up the mind...

Two of the elves has birthday today!!



I think you all do a great job.
I think it takes a very balanced person to be able to do it.

The Chief wrote:I say make you, Guy, a "Moderator" and let's see what ya got.

$10.00 says that you will do as much if not more "Moderating" of threads, as any "Elf" dude has done in a far shorter time frame.

Guess what....Guyzo IS already a moderator! Check-out "The Team" page...the-team.html

Rob wrote:

The Chief wrote:I say make you, Guy, a "Moderator" and let's see what ya got.

$10.00 says that you will do as much if not more "Moderating" of threads, as any "Elf" dude has done in a far shorter time frame.

Guess what....Guyzo IS already a moderator! Check-out "The Team" page...the-team.html

OK.... allow me to be more specific for you Rob.

Have Guy join the "Administrator's" and assist in the ongoing moderation of the ENTIRE website and not just one forum.

The Chief wrote:

Daria wrote:....

WHAT?

.... thought the same. But I am sure the choice of words was all on purpose to indicate the "inferiority" of the male readership, along the general theme of all her posts

I vote for Bob staying. And that's all I have to say about that.

SoCalHiker wrote:

The Chief wrote:

Daria wrote:....

WHAT?

.... thought the same. But I am sure the choice of words was all on purpose to indicate the "inferiority" of the male readership, along the general theme of all her posts

No, but I'll translate my idea into a more dumbed down version when I have time.

charles wrote:Somehow I´m glad Guy has put this up for discussion for I have to admit I´ve been somewhat confused lately by some moderation, whether it be thread cutting or rules of behaviour and engagement that, to me, seem ambiguous.

But you have always been a major trouble maker.

Bob Sihler wrote:Lolli-- Because of the nature of it, this thread is receiving extremely limited moderation. Yesterday, I personally asked the other elves to do any and all moderation so that there would be no appearance of my trying to control the topic in my favor. I did delete a vulgar attack post by an off-site troll, but that's the only kind of intervention I'll do here-- no editing or deleting legitimate members' posts. What the others do is entirely up to them.

I understand your feelings about it.
Problem with that is that he counts on that too. He's taking advantage of the fact.
The right thing is to not accept it.

His modus operandi is to repeat a lie over and over again, until some starts to believe it - in this case that tazz and I (or whoever he dislikes) would be treated favourable by the elves and get away with things, and that people who are banned are not because of their own actions, but because the elves have turned the evil eye on those members.
That is a lie. Elves know it, I and tazz knows it, and most members knows it.
But it's repeated over and over again, all the same.

It's not the first time I start reading a thread and find a lot of statements and opinions about myself and what I supposedly have done or not done - subjects which I have not been involved in, haven't voiced an opinion, haven't participated in the thread - and elves are not innocent when it comes to that either. Last time it happened I was threatened with being banned too - about a subject I never have been involved in, a made up accusation. Still pisses me off.

I play nice.
But considered provocative anyway.
Maybe there is no point in being nice?

The other way for me to go, is to accept that it's ok behaviour, stop complaining about it, and start doing the same myself.

I have nothing to lose, all my pages are taken care of.
I might as well start working on getting those puny whiny little creeps to cry for mama.
Can't be very difficult, most of them are spineless and stupid anyway.

There appears to be a lot of paranoia and self righteousness in the last two posts, unless you consider "he" as a gang of one....but "creeps" suggests more than one...a conspiracy?

And doesn't "Fuck that. Act like ladies and gentlemen." Sound a little "holier than thou"" ish, or "Do as I say not as I do" ish?